Choosing a caliber (not 45acp)

[saggy]

Hi folks,

I've started doing my research to purchase an entry level racer that I can grow with and build up over time. One design choice that I'm having trouble resolving is which caliber to choose. I'm hoping you more experienced folks can help train me on the thought process that I should use to make that choice. If you factor out the price and availability of the ammunition, what other factors should I consider? I'm leaning towards 9mm since what I've read is that the kick is the lightest and the rounds are the cheapest. But I've read some about 9mm being less reliable in the 1911 platform (mags being tricky and not reliably loading rounds without tuning). And that led me to investigate 38super and 40S&W.

I'd be very interested to learn what factors others applied when they approached this choice themselves. Thank you.

Edited November 10, 2010 by saggy

[1911Prof]

Wow, your timing is amazing. I was just logging on to ask more or less the same thing. I was also wondering about the tactical advantage of a 10 round mag vs. the 8 round mags for major.

[Singlestack]

You need to tell us which Division you plan on building for.

[h2osport]

Get a 1911 in 40 if you want to expand on it. You can shoot it to major power factor in single stack and limited 10. You can most likely use the same load for a double stack limited gun, especially if you stick with the ??11 platform.

While a 1911 in 9mm would be a fun gun to have, not really a practical caliber for USPSA unless you want to shoot minor power factor.

Randy

[Micah]

You need to tell us which Division you plan on building for.

+1.

If it is USPSA Single Stack, then the best choices that you have given your parameters are 40cal. I VERY recently decided to try Single Stack in 2011, and the feedback that I got back from other GM's was the same that I knew to be true: Minor scoring sucks.

Sure you might get two extra rounds, but you are going to get KILLED in points. Look at the results from the SS Nats, as well as the Area matches of 2010. Virtually everyone shoots major caliber. This is coming from someone who really, REALLY wanted to shoot a 9mm SS. The reality is: you will get punished at major matches.

[1911Prof]

Sure you might get two extra rounds, but you are going to get KILLED in points. Look at the results from the SS Nats, as well as the Area matches of 2010. Virtually everyone shoots major caliber. This is coming from someone who really, REALLY wanted to shoot a 9mm SS. The reality is: you will get punished at major matches.

I was talking about single stack division, because I really thought the extra rounds would make up for the minor scoring, but really it was just an excuse to contemplate something new.

[G-ManBart]

Yep, it really depends on what Division. For non-competition use, .38 Super is about as reliable in a 1911 as you can get. Most folks think the 1911 was designed around the .45acp, but that's not entirely correct. The earliest examples of what went on to become the 1911 were designed around the .38acp and later, when .45 was specified, they created the .45acp, which is why the two are nearly identical in OAL specs.

Both .40S&W and 9mm are good choices, but can be a bit more picky about magazines, bullet shapes, overall length etc. From a fun standpoint, 10mm works really well, and can be loaded down to be quite soft. R,

[ParaGunner]

Go with a. 40s&w and score major

[saggy]

You need to tell us which Division you plan on building for.

Ah, good point. With 1911 I really favor single stack. So, SS, Limited, and Limited-10 I think.

I think Open is down the road for me, and I'm not too interested in Production right now.

Based on what has been posted so far on major scoring, it does seem like a 40S&W is the right way to go. But then I might need to ask a followup. Perhaps I was too rash to say "not 45acp". For SS and Limited10, is 40S&W still a better way to go? Or just stick with the traditional 45acp?

Thanks again.

[818-DVC]

.40 and don't look back. If you take the sport seriously, you will eventually end up with a widebody of some sort and shoot limited division with same loads as SS/L-10

[G-ManBart]

Ah, good point. With 1911 I really favor single stack. So, SS, Limited, and Limited-10 I think.

I think Open is down the road for me, and I'm not too interested in Production right now.

Based on what has been posted so far on major scoring, it does seem like a 40S&W is the right way to go. But then I might need to ask a followup. Perhaps I was too rash to say "not 45acp". For SS and Limited10, is 40S&W still a better way to go? Or just stick with the traditional 45acp?

Thanks again.

A single stack 1911 isn't really competitive in Limited...not even close really when you consider most folks are getting 20-22 in their 2011 magazines. For SS or L-10 a 1911 works perfectly, and either .40 or .45 can work just fine. If you might shoot Limited with a high capacity gun in the future, it's really nice to be able to use the same ammo for both SS and Limited guns. If not, .45 is a little easier to make reliable than .45acp.

[Singlestack]

If not, .45 is a little easier to make reliable than .45acp.

I'm pretty sure G-Man meant to say .45acp is easier to make reliable than .40.

[saggy]

A single stack 1911 isn't really competitive in Limited...not even close really when you consider most folks are getting 20-22 in their 2011 magazines.

Ah. After having reviewed the rules for LImited a bit more closely, and looking at what top shooters are using in this division, I'm understanding this point much better now.

Thanks all, this has been helpful.

Related to this, I had noted that Les Baer makes most of his guns (save for one) in .400 Corbon, not .40S&W. The Corbon round is obviously much more difficult to find. Does the .40S&W work in a Baer .400 corbon? When I searched around for this info, I didn't turn up anything conclusive. Which leads me to believe I should already know the answer

[1911Prof]

Is there really an advantage to a .40 S&W compared to a .45acp?

[bbbean]

Is there really an advantage to a .40 S&W compared to a .45acp?

IF you already load 40, AND you can find a load that will work in both your limited gun and your 1911 gun, it is awfully nice to just make one load for two guns. Obviously, 40 components and ammo are cheaper than 45 as well.

On the other hand, 45 is a piece of cake to load for (much less picky about loads, OAL, etc), and you make those nice big holes.

As far as recoil goes, it's a matter of personal preference. I prefer my .45 (it's also a nicer gun), but there's more difference between different loads in one gun than there is between similar loads in both guns.

Edited November 10, 2010 by bbbean

[mgood]

Is there really an advantage to a .40 S&W compared to a .45acp?

.40 S&W is by far the most popular (for very good reasons) in Limited Division.

Many people who shoot Singlestack Division also shoot Limited, or figure that they will eventually. Having the same ammo for both, and not having to change things around to reload, makes it handy.

.40 is slightly less expensive to reload than .45.

.45 might be slightly easier to get to run reliably in a 1911. (Although many - most? - 1911s will require a little tweaking to get them to run 100%.)

EDIT: bbbean beat me to it.

Edited November 10, 2010 by mgood

[steel1212]

USPSA SS DIvision. Shoot Major. Pick a caliber 40, .45. If you have a smith close that can tweek a few things that MIGHT come up go with the .40. If your on your own, go with the .45.

Let me reword that. If you shoot something in .40 already its a good option. If you don't load for either caliber I would go with the .45 its going to be more reliable in the 1911.

Edited November 10, 2010 by steel1212

[BlueOvalBruin]

I really wish my single stack was a .40. The Single stacks in .40 that I’ve shot seem to have a little less recoil for the same power factor and it seems the sights return faster. My .45 bumps my sights off more and seems kind of sluggish/clunky too. .40’s to me are snappy and fast.

[bayoupirate]

Go 40 S&W load major for USPSA.

You can work up a lighter load for steel shooting.

You'll also have a good defense gun.

[G-ManBart]

I really wish my single stack was a .40. The Single stacks in .40 that I’ve shot seem to have a little less recoil for the same power factor and it seems the sights return faster. My .45 bumps my sights off more and seems kind of sluggish/clunky too. .40’s to me are snappy and fast.

I like the recoil impulse of the .40 for a SS gun as well. R,

[Singlestack]

I really wish my single stack was a .40. The Single stacks in .40 that I’ve shot seem to have a little less recoil for the same power factor and it seems the sights return faster. My .45 bumps my sights off more and seems kind of sluggish/clunky too. .40’s to me are snappy and fast.

Try a 200g SWC in your .45. 230's feel slugish to me too.

[twodownzero]

You guys are funny. I shot my single stack the last two matches and I couldn't believe how nice and soft it felt with Clays and a 230 compared to the 2011/.40

[G-ManBart]

You guys are funny. I shot my single stack the last two matches and I couldn't believe how nice and soft it felt with Clays and a 230 compared to the 2011/.40

Have you compared the weight of the two? Many 2011s are several ounces heavier (or more)...and that plus grip size differences can really change how they feel.

I don't think my .40 SS necessarily feels "softer", but it definitely feels different. Some people describe it as torque, but I'm not so sure that's it either. I'm fairly recoil tolerant, so it may be the bit quicker impulse, with less muzzle flip, is easier for me to control...or it could just be that they both come back so much less than my Open guns do that it's not a big deal to me. R,

[cas]

Does the .40S&W work in a Baer .400 corbon?

No.

.400 Corbon is .45 ACP necked down to .40

[oak hill]

Whats wrong with 45?