RHall Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 I shot 99-8 on sunday and did bad on the first run. so I ask the MD if I could pay to shoot the classifier again after the match just for classification purposes not for the match. He said alright so I shot it and did much better the second run. Now I have recieved an email saying that they wont send it in. They say that shooting it twice was like practicing the stage. They have always let people shoot the classifier with different guns and setups whats the difference in shooting it with the same setup. I cant find anything about it in the rulebook so I wrote an email to USPSA and will get the final say on the ruling. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 AFAIK, USPSA has a policy in place now for several y that *every* classifier score must be sent in. So...if you shoot it 15 times, all 15 scores must be sent in. That is a bit silly, because only the highest will contribute to your classification, but that's the policy. If you feel strongly enough about this, have someone in HQ contact your club representative. --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 IME, it was more or less at the discretion of the particular club whether or not classifiers could be reshot. Some do it, some don't. (And it seems some people DO go and "practice" classifiers....big surprise.... ). But to do it for some and then deny someone else....that's crap. I'd take it up with your club's IPSC organizer, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 Agreed. Both scores should be sent in. Classifier management is something for HQ to deal with, not the local clubs. Call HQ and get the scoop. Then get in touch with your club's organizer and explain to him/her the situation from Sedro's standpoint. BTW, if you PAID to reshoot it, I'd raise holy hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 It should be sent in, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Moore Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 if you felt you didn't shoot the first classifier up to your ability and requested a second run and performed better. then both classifiers should be sent in and the lesser of the two will be considered a double. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHall Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 Exactly how I feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHall Posted February 24, 2004 Author Share Posted February 24, 2004 This is what I got back from USPSA Hi Ryan, Sorry to hear you are having a problem with your classification scores. I'll do what I can to help. Classifier reshoots are a club option, but once allowed there is no USPSA policy reason not to submit them. We have not received the SE Michigan Practical Shooters match report as yet, and I've so far heard only your side of this issue. Without knowing the reason for the clubs refusal to submit the second score I won't comment on their decision. I suggest you contact the MI Section Coordinator Jeffrey Bing (jdbing@iserv.net) and politely bring the matter to his attention. I would also suggest copying Area 5 Director Gary Stevens with that message. Those gentlemen represent the proper chain of command in your attempt to resolve the issue. Please keep me posted on the results of your efforts. We strongly support our Junior competitors and want to see you progress. Don't get discouraged, keep shooting! Regards, Dave Thomas USPSA Executive Director Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted February 25, 2004 Share Posted February 25, 2004 What the other guys said ... It's their choice to allow or disallow a reshoot(s), but once they are shot, all of them go to Sedro Woolley, no choice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Usually, Our club (Where Ryan shot 99-8) does not allow re-shoots of classifiers (due to time constraints-we sometimes get upwards of 80 shooters ). Mr. Hall shot on a day when we had a new match director. The new MD errored on the side of caution, and allowed the re-shoot figuring that he could confer with a higher authority on the matter later. However, unknowingly, the MD opened up a Pandoras Box, which, unfortunately led to the chain of events here. No malice was intended, and after discussing it with John Amidon (the ULTIMATE authority on the matter), it was decided that we should submit the score as a gesture of good faith. Keepin mind, that NO MONEY was taken from Ryan before the determination was made, and therefore, we did not HAVE TO submit it, but he is a junior shooter, and we wish to promote our sport, so we have told Ryan that if he pays for the re-shoot, we will submit it (as per John Amidons opinion) read below: In a message dated 2/26/2004 9:48:08 PM Eastern Standard Time, jlafave@mich.com writes: He shot the same gun, at the same classifier, and wants the second score to count for USPSA. Isn't this grandstanding? The BOD had voted several years ago that it was OK for competitors to shoot classifiers multible times and send them all in, the system will only take the highest hit factor, he should pay for the reshoots though. John Unfortunately, it takes time to get a determination, and a lot was posted here before I could get the ruling. It seems everybody "jumped the gun" a little on this one. We are sorry for the confusion, but in the same manner that we indoctrinate new shooters, we must allow MD's the opportunity to learn (and make mistakes) as well. The MD felt he did the right thing, but actually, by thinking he was covering himself, he took himself past the point of no return. Now we have all learned something new!!! Ryan, we hope there are no hard feelings and we hope to see you at the next match. Jeff LaFave Vice President Livingston Gun Club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Jeff, Although this matter is none of my business, I'd just like to congratulate you on taking the time to offer an explanation in such a friendly and courteous manner, and I hope Ryan is satisfied that this was just an unfortunate case of "doo-doo happens". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimstc Posted March 2, 2004 Share Posted March 2, 2004 Jeff, Excellent outcome and explanation. Very well done. People like you and your MD are what makes this sport so good. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjobart Posted March 3, 2004 Share Posted March 3, 2004 I have been shooting at this club for five years and the statement by Barrettone that this club has a policy against re-shooting classifiers is news to me. We have been re-shooting for at least the five years I have been around, as allowed by USPSA rules. This is not the first time rules have been made up on the spot at this club. This club is trying to put behind it a reputation for making up rules and regain the respect of surrounding clubs. This will never happen as long as the erroneous rule-making continues. Bart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHall Posted March 4, 2004 Author Share Posted March 4, 2004 " Keepin mind, that NO MONEY was taken from Ryan before the determination was made, and therefore, we did not HAVE TO submit it, but he is a junior shooter, and we wish to promote our sport, so we have told Ryan that if he pays for the re-shoot we will send it in." "No money was taken". This is just making me sound like someone that wont pay. When I asked the "MD" if I could shoot the classifier the first thing I said was here is the 5 bucks to shoot it again he said "oh dont worry about it". Just because I did not pay does not mean it was my choice. So your match director made a mistake, why should I have to pay for his mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHall Posted March 4, 2004 Author Share Posted March 4, 2004 I have been shooting at this club for five years and the statement by Barrettone that this club has a policy against re-shooting classifiers is news to me. We have been re-shooting for at least the five years I have been around, as allowed by USPSA rules.This is not the first time rules have been made up on the spot at this club. This club is trying to put behind it a reputation for making up rules and regain the respect of surrounding clubs. This will never happen as long as the erroneous rule-making continues. Bart Bart hit it right on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 This has been a learning experience for everyone, and as a result of these current events, I have made it MY MISSION to have this formally discussed at this Sundays board meeting and policy to be SET IN STONE to quash any questions anyone may have about our classifier policies. If you have an opinion, please bring it there, and do not slander or defame the club in this forum. I do not make a practice of slamming clubs in public, as I feel there is no place for it. Constructive criticism is one thing, but this has gone a bit far. There are civilized ways to bring about change. Let's do so...shall we? And Ryan, nobody said or even meant to imply that you were cheap. I was only trying to illustrate that we did not "rob" you of any money, as was implied in one of the above posts. Let's try to work together and not just try to pick a fight. This sport is supposed to be fun...remember? Barrettone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHall Posted March 4, 2004 Author Share Posted March 4, 2004 I was only trying to illustrate that we did not "rob" you of any money, as was implied in one of the above posts. But now you are saying that for the scores to be sent in I must send money in the mail or my classifier will not be sent in. You are making your "MD's" mistakes hard for me to fix, have I not went through enough. BTW I dont have a check book so If you still would like the 5 dollars you can arrange to have someone pick it up. I just want this to end! RHALL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 MODERATORS NOTE This thread has strayed from the spirit of the Forum Guidelines. Please re-read the Guidelines and endeavor to keep the thread "on track." (Please be polite; or if not polite at least respectful.) Thank you! BE's Moderating Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snokid Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 Jeff So are we going to be still able to shoot extra classifiers at your club? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Moore Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 reshooting classifiers is one thing but reshooting classifers in another division should still be allowed. i shoot at this club frequently with most of the people on the thread and would hate for any bad blood become of this one incident. can't we all just get along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrettone Posted March 4, 2004 Share Posted March 4, 2004 We'll just have to see what hyappens Sunday. We will discuss it, submit proposals, and let the chips fall where they may. I am only one vote...the group (BoD) must decide. No hard feelings exist...just differences of opinion. I respect everyone here enough to seperate the wheat from the chaff. Democracy is a wonderful thing...it usually establishes a happy medium. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulW Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 OH geez...the politics, the politics!! I'll pay the damn $5, where do I send it? Just end this and make it clear for your club members what is and isn't allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vince Pinto Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Hi guys, Please be nice, OK? I have no direct interest in the outcome of this matter, but I'd like to suggest a voluntary moratorium on further posts at least until the results of the subject club's BOD meeting are known and published here. Thanks in advance to all for your cooperation. Your friendly Moderator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 5, 2004 Share Posted March 5, 2004 Rule question asked and answered. It now looks to be an internal matter for the club to figure out. I am going to lock this thread. If anybody has more to add about the USPSA/IPSC rules...please ask that a forum moderator (Shooter Girl or Vince) open the thread for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 8, 2004 Share Posted March 8, 2004 REOPENED. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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