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What "he-man" Should Be


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I think the evenness of the two equipment classes would be greatly depends on the match. Yes Pat, you could win with irons, but the division would need to be geared towards the average shooter. I think the classes would be more even if the pump gun went with the optic division. The average shooter does much better with an optic, especially on longer distance targets. The average shooter also does better with a semi auto shotgun. Keep the pistol even between classes. Even with these changes I think equipment class would be skewed depending on the match. Something like RM3G, give me the rifle optic. Lots of close in hoser stuff, I'll take the semi auto 12g.

That being said I still don't like it. not sure there is a best answer. Discounted entry for He-Man shooters?

I still think that this will improve the participation in the Heavies.

How about just within HM one hit for rifle and pistol?

How about after that....we make HM one SCORED division with two classes of equipment.

HM Optics 20/308 Rifle 10/45 Pistol and 8+1 Auto Shotguns (12 bore)

HM Iron (1x) No mag capacity restriction/308 Rifle 140MM mag length max/45 Pistol 8+1(at start) Pump (12 bore)

I know I have chatted with a couple of HM shooters that are NOT entrenched in one way or another and our

opinion was neither class of equipment had an advantage so both would be viable.

I for one would run the HM (1x) Iron against the HM Optics. for the win.

Edited by rboyes
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Why 155 grain minimum? I haven't computed 308 loading prices in a long time but I would think the cheap 147 fmj's would be preferable on a hoser stage from a cost perspective and you can still easily make major PF.

Most of the 147 FMJ bullets are bimetal. Some matches give a warning for the 1st offense of using them, DQ after the warning. Others, DQ if a magnet sticks to the bullet.

Administratively, .308 Winchester minimum works, and you don't have to pull bullets to check the weight. I have to spend a little time to get a consistent load, I don't care if it winds up being 168's over 135, 155, or 125 grain bullets.

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I still fail to understand why we need to go semi auto shotgun in HM scope at all. If the discussion is to combine the divisions, then only the handicap of rifle irons would need to be even'd out. Going to auto in HM Scope only compounds the problem. Now I could see offering all HM shooters the choice of running an 8rd limited auto loader or an unlimited capacity pump. That would be an interesting twist.

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I still fail to understand why we need to go semi auto shotgun in HM scope at all. If the discussion is to combine the divisions, then only the handicap of rifle irons would need to be even'd out. Going to auto in HM Scope only compounds the problem. Now I could see offering all HM shooters the choice of running an 8rd limited auto loader or an unlimited capacity pump. That would be an interesting twist.

The idea IS to combine into one for SCORING but allow two equipment classes.

Based on what has been seen at matches around the country HMO guys want Autos.

And I don't believe that rifle capacity difference between HMO and HMI will even it out.

With all targets only requiring one hit rifle capacity alone is not enough.

With addition of unlimited AFTER the start pump and 14 or 15 round pistol HMI vs. HMO

will be more of a toss up depending on the stages at the particular match.

But that is just my opinion. I don't have much experience in these matters.

This may change once this concept gets off the ground. (come on 3 gun nation say it will happen)

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1 heavy division. 308 with optic (or not) and 20 round limit, 12 gauge pump and 10 round 45.

Shooters still have to deal with recoil and limited mag capacity, while following the majorities migration to optics.

This will drive a few more out of heavy optics and HM. The optics crowd won't want to pump and the irons guys won't want to compete with the scope guys.

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My two cents... I'd like to see either:

One division -- 20 round .308s with irons/1x, pump shotgun, 10 round .45s

or

Not have a standalone HM at all... Allow the "heavy" guns in to all divisions with a scoring advantage. The heavy gun must conform witht the rules of whichever division, except for a limited magazine capacity. I think shooting Open with a .308 space gun and an old-school comp/dot single stack .45 would be a hoot!!

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1 heavy division. 308 with optic (or not) and 20 round limit, 12 gauge pump and 10 round 45.

Shooters still have to deal with recoil and limited mag capacity, while following the majorities migration to optics.

This works for me!

Me tambien! I just like the idea of the ability to use a pump gun being measured as a skill in some division. This just sounds like a hoot with the .308, and the .45. Need to buy another M1A and a 1911! Woohoo!!!

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1 heavy division. 308 with optic (or not) and 20 round limit, 12 gauge pump and 10 round 45.

Shooters still have to deal with recoil and limited mag capacity, while following the majorities migration to optics.

This works for me!

Me tambien! I just like the idea of the ability to use a pump gun being measured as a skill in some division. This just sounds like a hoot with the .308, and the .45. Need to buy another M1A and a 1911! Woohoo!!!

And then come to He-Man Nationals!! We still do the two divisions, for a while because out at Whittington the magnification is a HUGE advantage, but the guys (and gals) seem to have a lot of fun! I'm a wuss...I shoot wee-man! :-)

http://home.earthlink.net/~johnson3gun/

:wub: Denise

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1 heavy division. 308 with optic (or not) and 20 round limit, 12 gauge pump and 10 round 45.

Shooters still have to deal with recoil and limited mag capacity, while following the majorities migration to optics.

This works for me!

Me tambien! I just like the idea of the ability to use a pump gun being measured as a skill in some division. This just sounds like a hoot with the .308, and the .45. Need to buy another M1A and a 1911! Woohoo!!!
And then come to He-Man Nationals!! We still do the two divisions, for a while because out at Whittington the magnification is a HUGE advantage, but the guys (and gals) seem to have a lot of fun! I'm a wuss...I shoot wee-man! :-)

http://home.earthlink.net/~johnson3gun/

:wub: Denise

It's even a local match for him, Denise. :cheers:

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