TonytheTiger Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Why 155 grain minimum? I haven't computed 308 loading prices in a long time but I would think the cheap 147 fmj's would be preferable on a hoser stage from a cost perspective and you can still easily make major PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rboyes Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 (edited) I think the evenness of the two equipment classes would be greatly depends on the match. Yes Pat, you could win with irons, but the division would need to be geared towards the average shooter. I think the classes would be more even if the pump gun went with the optic division. The average shooter does much better with an optic, especially on longer distance targets. The average shooter also does better with a semi auto shotgun. Keep the pistol even between classes. Even with these changes I think equipment class would be skewed depending on the match. Something like RM3G, give me the rifle optic. Lots of close in hoser stuff, I'll take the semi auto 12g. That being said I still don't like it. not sure there is a best answer. Discounted entry for He-Man shooters? I still think that this will improve the participation in the Heavies. How about just within HM one hit for rifle and pistol? How about after that....we make HM one SCORED division with two classes of equipment. HM Optics 20/308 Rifle 10/45 Pistol and 8+1 Auto Shotguns (12 bore) HM Iron (1x) No mag capacity restriction/308 Rifle 140MM mag length max/45 Pistol 8+1(at start) Pump (12 bore) I know I have chatted with a couple of HM shooters that are NOT entrenched in one way or another and our opinion was neither class of equipment had an advantage so both would be viable. I for one would run the HM (1x) Iron against the HM Optics. for the win. Edited December 26, 2014 by rboyes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 Why 155 grain minimum? I haven't computed 308 loading prices in a long time but I would think the cheap 147 fmj's would be preferable on a hoser stage from a cost perspective and you can still easily make major PF. Most of the 147 FMJ bullets are bimetal. Some matches give a warning for the 1st offense of using them, DQ after the warning. Others, DQ if a magnet sticks to the bullet. Administratively, .308 Winchester minimum works, and you don't have to pull bullets to check the weight. I have to spend a little time to get a consistent load, I don't care if it winds up being 168's over 135, 155, or 125 grain bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 ^ Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted December 26, 2014 Share Posted December 26, 2014 90 gr 308 mouse fart loads are not heavy metal or he man, and are cheating in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I still fail to understand why we need to go semi auto shotgun in HM scope at all. If the discussion is to combine the divisions, then only the handicap of rifle irons would need to be even'd out. Going to auto in HM Scope only compounds the problem. Now I could see offering all HM shooters the choice of running an 8rd limited auto loader or an unlimited capacity pump. That would be an interesting twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 90 grain .308 bullets? Flying aspirins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 I still fail to understand why we need to go semi auto shotgun in HM scope at all. If the discussion is to combine the divisions, then only the handicap of rifle irons would need to be even'd out. Going to auto in HM Scope only compounds the problem. Now I could see offering all HM shooters the choice of running an 8rd limited auto loader or an unlimited capacity pump. That would be an interesting twist. The idea IS to combine into one for SCORING but allow two equipment classes. Based on what has been seen at matches around the country HMO guys want Autos. And I don't believe that rifle capacity difference between HMO and HMI will even it out. With all targets only requiring one hit rifle capacity alone is not enough. With addition of unlimited AFTER the start pump and 14 or 15 round pistol HMI vs. HMO will be more of a toss up depending on the stages at the particular match. But that is just my opinion. I don't have much experience in these matters. This may change once this concept gets off the ground. (come on 3 gun nation say it will happen) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
co-exprs Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 HMO guys also want 9mm and that is just plain wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.E. Kelley Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 HMO guys also want 9mm and that is just plain wrong. So what. They can have that too as far as I am concerned provided it is capped at 10 rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSnSC Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 1 heavy division. 308 with optic (or not) and 20 round limit, 12 gauge pump and 10 round 45. Shooters still have to deal with recoil and limited mag capacity, while following the majorities migration to optics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 1 heavy division. 308 with optic (or not) and 20 round limit, 12 gauge pump and 10 round 45. Shooters still have to deal with recoil and limited mag capacity, while following the majorities migration to optics. This works for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 1 heavy division. 308 with optic (or not) and 20 round limit, 12 gauge pump and 10 round 45. Shooters still have to deal with recoil and limited mag capacity, while following the majorities migration to optics. This will drive a few more out of heavy optics and HM. The optics crowd won't want to pump and the irons guys won't want to compete with the scope guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcloudy777 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 My two cents... I'd like to see either: One division -- 20 round .308s with irons/1x, pump shotgun, 10 round .45s or Not have a standalone HM at all... Allow the "heavy" guns in to all divisions with a scoring advantage. The heavy gun must conform witht the rules of whichever division, except for a limited magazine capacity. I think shooting Open with a .308 space gun and an old-school comp/dot single stack .45 would be a hoot!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 1 heavy division. 308 with optic (or not) and 20 round limit, 12 gauge pump and 10 round 45. Shooters still have to deal with recoil and limited mag capacity, while following the majorities migration to optics. This works for me! Me tambien! I just like the idea of the ability to use a pump gun being measured as a skill in some division. This just sounds like a hoot with the .308, and the .45. Need to buy another M1A and a 1911! Woohoo!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 1 heavy division. 308 with optic (or not) and 20 round limit, 12 gauge pump and 10 round 45. Shooters still have to deal with recoil and limited mag capacity, while following the majorities migration to optics. This works for me! Me tambien! I just like the idea of the ability to use a pump gun being measured as a skill in some division. This just sounds like a hoot with the .308, and the .45. Need to buy another M1A and a 1911! Woohoo!!! And then come to He-Man Nationals!! We still do the two divisions, for a while because out at Whittington the magnification is a HUGE advantage, but the guys (and gals) seem to have a lot of fun! I'm a wuss...I shoot wee-man! :-) http://home.earthlink.net/~johnson3gun/ Denise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEP44 Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 One division - 20 rounds .308s with irons/1X, pump shotgun, 10 round .45s This gets my vote (and keep allowing a .44m pistol!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted December 27, 2014 Share Posted December 27, 2014 1 heavy division. 308 with optic (or not) and 20 round limit, 12 gauge pump and 10 round 45. Shooters still have to deal with recoil and limited mag capacity, while following the majorities migration to optics. This works for me! Me tambien! I just like the idea of the ability to use a pump gun being measured as a skill in some division. This just sounds like a hoot with the .308, and the .45. Need to buy another M1A and a 1911! Woohoo!!!And then come to He-Man Nationals!! We still do the two divisions, for a while because out at Whittington the magnification is a HUGE advantage, but the guys (and gals) seem to have a lot of fun! I'm a wuss...I shoot wee-man! :-) http://home.earthlink.net/~johnson3gun/ Denise It's even a local match for him, Denise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumzer Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Cigars? Please. Copenhagen. And beards...big ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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