Lee King Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Does anyone know if the Cylinder and Slide Safety Fast trigger system is legal in single stack? You have to push the hammer forward to apply the safety (you just push the hammer, not pull the trigger while easing the hammer like a cz). So it doesn't technically meet single action ready condition in that the hammer is "down" per se. But the hammer flips back as soon as you flip the safety off. So while the hammer is down initially, it functions exactly like any other single stack trigger. The first trigger pull is the same as any other pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted November 7, 2010 Share Posted November 7, 2010 Don't know about the legality but I must ask what is the need/advantage/why of considering the thing in the first place???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldchar Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Afraid not legal. Not a Browning design D5 special conditon.plus you might have a problem with 8.1, handgun ready condition 8.1.2.1 i.e. ready condition is hammer cocked and safety engaged for single action. Jim G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee King Posted November 8, 2010 Author Share Posted November 8, 2010 Don't know about the legality but I must ask what is the need/advantage/why of considering the thing in the first place???? I am about to rebuild my single stack. It is primarily for carry but I would like to run it in ss occasionally. I'd hate to make a choice that would bite me for one purpose. For carry it's a really cool system to carry locked but not cocked but with the familiar function and feel of a 1911. My smith built a gun with one and I really liked it. But if it's not legal then I'd stick with one of the "normal" cylinder and slide triggers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee King Posted November 8, 2010 Author Share Posted November 8, 2010 .plus you might have a problem with 8.1, handgun ready condition 8.1.2.1 i.e. ready condition is hammer cocked and safety engaged for single action. That's what I'm wondering. From draw to first shot it functions exactly as any other ss. Draw, safety off, single action pull. There is no discernible difference when flipping the safety off on this than any other. It's not heavier or longer like it's drawing the hammer back. The hammer seems spring loaded and the safety "allows" it to flip back. So while technically the hammer is down, it is as ready as a cocked and locked ss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Lee, I don't think it would pass muster as a traditional SS action, as JMB designed. Cool, yes, but SS-compliant, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Lee, I don't think it would pass muster as a traditional SS action, as JMB designed. Cool, yes, but SS-compliant, no. The actual firing function of it is no different. I'm not sure that your interpretation is correct, but I'm not sure it's wrong, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin40 Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 Don't know about the legality but I must ask what is the need/advantage/why of considering the thing in the first place???? Its for carry. I looked into this but being left handed and talking with the smith at Cylinder and Slide I decided against it. It just leaves the hammer down. Safety is on and when you depress the safety it cocks the hammer. Lets you carry a locked and loaded 1911 with the hammer down. Flyin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 JMB wasn't around for a lot of the stuff that is legal. Hmmm... Series 80 - legal Para LDA - not legal (granted, it's trigger is different externally) C&S SFS - ??? I read the rules once, and couldn't decide. I'll have to give them another read. Since there is specific wording that seems to allow for the Series 80 stuff...it would seem to be a long row to hoe for the SFS. Then again, it doesn't offer any difference in functionality or appearance (yet it adds another safety feature, while retaining the other safeties). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted November 8, 2010 Share Posted November 8, 2010 why not just carry the gun in condition 1 (cocked and locked) like it was designed? plus for competition use, you rack a round into the chamber, flip up the thumb safety and you're done. seems easier to use the standard design for both purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldchar Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 JMB wasn't around for a lot of the stuff that is legal. Hmmm... Series 80 - legal Para LDA - not legal (granted, it's trigger is different externally) C&S SFS - ??? I read the rules once, and couldn't decide. I'll have to give them another read. Since there is specific wording that seems to allow for the Series 80 stuff...it would seem to be a long row to hoe for the SFS. Then again, it doesn't offer any difference in functionality or appearance (yet it adds another safety feature, while retaining the other safeties). Sounds like someone is trying to read between the lines? Tempting but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 JMB wasn't around for a lot of the stuff that is legal. Hmmm... Series 80 - legal Para LDA - not legal (granted, it's trigger is different externally) C&S SFS - ??? I read the rules once, and couldn't decide. I'll have to give them another read. Since there is specific wording that seems to allow for the Series 80 stuff...it would seem to be a long row to hoe for the SFS. Then again, it doesn't offer any difference in functionality or appearance (yet it adds another safety feature, while retaining the other safeties). Sounds like someone is trying to read between the lines? Tempting but... Really? I thought I gave a neutral and uncommitted opinion (since that is where I am at on it). I guess I need to work on my communication. If nothing else, there is plenty of room in L-10 for the single-stack with the SFS. If I were a single-stack division* shooter...looking to grow the ranks...I might want to try to find a way to say YES instead of NO. But, I'm not as religious as some. So, I just read the rules and try to figure out what they say. * I usually shot my 1911 in L-10...which is a little better populated in my area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 why not just carry the gun in condition 1 (cocked and locked) like it was designed? plus for competition use, you rack a round into the chamber, flip up the thumb safety and you're done. seems easier to use the standard design for both purposes. My reading of their literature suggests that proper condition 1 carry is out the window after these parts are installed. Considering the ease with which it can be installed and removed, I'd probably just convert my gun back over before a match if I felt the need to run this setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee King Posted November 9, 2010 Author Share Posted November 9, 2010 why not just carry the gun in condition 1 (cocked and locked) like it was designed? plus for competition use, you rack a round into the chamber, flip up the thumb safety and you're done. seems easier to use the standard design for both purposes. My reading of their literature suggests that proper condition 1 carry is out the window after these parts are installed. Considering the ease with which it can be installed and removed, I'd probably just convert my gun back over before a match if I felt the need to run this setup. Is it? Everything is cocked internally. Just the hammer is down. The shooter has to do nothing different to fire a shot from the "ready" condition than a "normal" 1911. The more I think about it and read about it, the thing that concerns me more than the "ready" condition is the fact you can't re-apply the safety. You have to push the hammer forward and the safety automatically flips on. It doesn't technically break any rules. But since the gun has a safety, the safety on part of 8.5.1 can't apply. Except when the competitor is actually aiming or shooting at targets,all movement (see Appendix A3) must be accomplished with the fingers visibly outside the trigger guard and the safety should be engaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgood Posted November 9, 2010 Share Posted November 9, 2010 Except when the competitor is actually aiming or shooting at targets,all movement (see Appendix A3) must be accomplished with the fingers visibly outside the trigger guard and the safety should be engaged. Unrelated to the C&S system, I asked about engaging the safety while moving. [thread] What I learned was that "should" does not equal "must." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee King Posted November 9, 2010 Author Share Posted November 9, 2010 Except when the competitor is actually aiming or shooting at targets,all movement (see Appendix A3) must be accomplished with the fingers visibly outside the trigger guard and the safety should be engaged. Unrelated to the C&S system, I asked about engaging the safety while moving. [thread] What I learned was that "should" does not equal "must." And I said originally: " It doesn't technically break any rules" However, a shooter with a safety on a gun no longer has the option under this system. By the rules there's nothing wrong with this but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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