Lack of accuracy with Precision Moly

[Cy Soto]

Ever since I began visiting this forum I have heard shooters rant and rave about the virtues of Precision Moly bullets. For years I had been shooting bare lead bullets and never saw a reason to try these. I have recently decided to give them a shot but I am having some issues with them and I need help to identify what it is that I am doing wrong...

I purchased the 185gr Precision Moly-Coated bullets to shoot through my Springfield .40 S&W 1911 gun. I am loading these with 4.5gr of Solo 1000 (OAL 1.185" / crimp 0.422") and getting a PF of 172 (~930fps). Not only am I getting an obscene amount of Moly residue in my barrel after only a hundred rounds but the accuracy is suffering also.

I was using a Lee FCD in my last station (which I have been told that it could be the culprit for the excess fouling in the barrel). I have since switched back to a Dillon Crimp die but the results are the same.

I have heard that the residue left in the barrel should not be affecting the accuracy of the gun but I am finding that this is not the case in this particular gun. With a clean barrel, this load has an acceptable accuracy (about 3" to 3.5" at 25 yards rested). Not as exceptional as I was hoping for since I was getting about a 2.25" group with the old lead load I was using prior to switching to Precision bullets. The problem is that after only a couple hundred rounds of these Moly coated bullets, the groups are starting to open up to about 5".

I wanted to switch to Moly bullets because I wanted to get away from having to clean the gun after every practice session or match and I find myself having to clean the pistol just as often as I did when I was using lead.

With so many people having great results with this particular brand of bullet, I know that I must be either doing something wrong that is causing all this fouling or is it maybe that I am expecting too much from these bullets?

[yoshidaex]

have you tried a different powder?

[Cy Soto]

have you tried a different powder?

Truth be told, I haven't. I have heard many shooters recommending either WST or Solo 1000 for moly bullets and I didn't think to try anything different.

[Matt Cheely]

Try reducing your crimp. Just enough to take out the bell and no more.

[Cy Soto]

Try reducing your crimp. Just enough to take out the bell and no more.

The crimp is pretty light already at 0.422". I can try going a bit lighter but the case will be slightly belled. When I was using the Lee FCD, I tried crimping to 0.423" and, when I did, there was still a hint of a bell in the case.

Could there be a chance that what I need to do is tighten the crimp a bit to eliminate the moly residue? I have never crimped any tighter than 0.420" and then only with FMJ.

[calishootr]

I load moly's with WST pretty much exclusively, granted its a different moly(bear creek) but i have had no problems with leading/residue/accuracy, its minimal on the smoke because its a 'cooler' powder and when i got my first batch it was 10 bucks a pound!!!! cant beat it...

[Matt Cheely]

Try reducing your crimp. Just enough to take out the bell and no more.

The crimp is pretty light already at 0.422". I can try going a bit lighter but the case will be slightly belled. When I was using the Lee FCD, I tried crimping to 0.423" and, when I did, there was still a hint of a bell in the case.

Could there be a chance that what I need to do is tighten the crimp a bit to eliminate the moly residue? I have never crimped any tighter than 0.420" and then only with FMJ.

I had problems before with moly and it was all due to a half turn of crimp on a Lee FCD.

[Jaxshooter]

I am loading Precision Molys in both .40(165 gr) and .45(230 gr). I use N-320 in 40 and Clays in .45. Excellent accuracy with both loads, no residue in barrels. My crimp dies are set the same as they were for JHPs and FMJs. A buddy of mine loads them for his 38 super revolver (minor PF) and his .45 SS with the same results as mine. PM if you want our load info but it is for 230gr.

[lcs]

Solo 1000 is to hot. Your probably melting the coating. Precision recommends

Vihtavuori – N-320/N-340

Ramshot – Competition/Zip

Winchester – WST

Alliant – American Select/Power Pistol

Hodgdon – Universal Clays/HP38

I got great accuracy with Ramshot Competition and it's pretty cheap too.

[CocoBolo]

I had trouble when I started using Precision Moly. 3 things. 1. Belling - the case needs to be belled enough that you do not cut the coating, look for flakes around the rim and on the shell plate. 2. The FCD die was undersizing the bullet. 3. The U-Die was making the neck too tight. After I corrected those 3 issues no more build up.

Things you can do.

1. Ceaning - Use a copper choreboy wrapped around a bore brush. Cleans that stuff right out. Then use a little JB Bore paste to polish it up.

2. If the barrel is rough then you could take a litte flitz and polish it up.

3. Some barrels just won't work with them, like my Sig P226 no matter what it will lead up.

I use WST no problem.

Your OAL is the same as mine for my STI Edge.

Edited November 5, 2010 by CocoBolo

[twodownzero]

I shoot nothing but Solo 1000 in .40 with my bullets (180s) and I have never had any sort of fouling.

it's not the powder.

[Cy Soto]

I had trouble when I started using Precision Moly. 3 things. 1. Belling - the case needs to be belled enough that you do not cut the coating, look for flakes around the rim and on the shell plate. 2. The FCD die was undersizing the bullet. 3. The U-Die was making the neck too tight. After I corrected those 3 issues no more build up.

I had already switched the FCD and I know that I am belling enough because I didn't want to run the risk of scratching the coating off the bullets. Out of the three options you mention the only one I hadn't tried correcting was switching out the U-die.

Nonetheless I think I have found a solution to all of my issues with these bullets... I purchased a case of Montana Gold bullets! I still have about 600 rounds of these Precision bullets left which I will use up within the next week or two but I don't think I will bother with them any more. They were too much of a pain in the hind and the money saved wasn't worth my time.

Thank you all for your help and guidance!

[noylj]

I know that a lot of folks like it, but S1000 just seems like a very fast powder to use for .40S&W, particularly for that velocity. The only load I find for S1000 and 185 lead bullets is 3.4gn. Are you using published reloading data?

Did you chamfer your brass?

Have you pulled any bullets after seating/crimping to see if you are damaging the coating?

From Precision FAQ page, they recommend a slower powder and separating the seating from crimping steps.

Black Bullets International recommends Solo 1000 for minor power factor only and, if you are getting too much smoke or fouling, to go to a slower powder.

[al503]

If you want to try molys again, I would buy a couple hundred rounds from someone you trust who doesn't have issues and run them in your pistol. If you have issues with their bullets, you might have a bbl issue.

[Cy Soto]

If you have issues with their bullets, you might have a bbl issue.

That is one aspect that I hadn't at all considered. What sort of barrel problems are we talking about?

[gordonm1]

I started out with my sig new x5 comp in .40 using precision 185 grain. Accuracy kinda sucked with solo 1000 and another surplus powder (scott 453). I took out the U-die and used my dillon size die and accuracy returned. It was something about the tight fitting cases. My problem now is not all glocked brass gets sized enough for my sig barrel chamber. I also read alot of guys realy need the U-die for their tight chambered barrels.

[Cy Soto]

I also read alot of guys realy need the U-die for their tight chambered barrels.

That is exactly the issue that I have with my barrel. I also use a G-Rx die.

My beef with these is that they seem to be too finicky. They will work but only if you use "these dies", and if you follow "this procedure", and use "this powder", and shoot them at "this speed"... Life is too short to add an over-complicated loading process to the mix.

[pivoproseem]

I stopped using them for the same reasons.I had no trouble with BBI bulllets, so I must suspect their coating formula....

[kamikaze1a]

I wonder why no one mentioned slugging your barrel? Barrel to bullet fit has a lot to do with leading/accuracy. Most cast/swaged bullet manufacturers state their bullet sized to diameter but I have found that some are not as stated. The last batch I bought, from a new to me manufacturer was .402-.403 diameter while they were advertised as .401. I had problems with the bullets and resolved the issue by sizing them to .401 before loading. I have found that leading is caused by too small bullets or too big bore.

So, have you slugged your barrel? Mic'd the PD bullets? IMHO, I have found that using a Lee FCD or breaking the Moly coating or moderate over crimping had not impacted my accuracy to the degree you describe nor caused leading...I think your barrel might have a bore on the big side.

Edited November 14, 2010 by kamikaze1a

[CocoBolo]

SY - Get some 200gr MTG or Zero FN put 4.3gr of TiteGroup behind it and enjoy OAL 1.85 to 1.20. Jacketed bullets are almost impossible to mess up, even with a U-die and an FCD. TiteGroup its cheap hot dirty nasty, but shoots so nice, great stuff.

[alphabrace]

What is a U die? Does a factory crimp die differ from a bullet seat and crimp die which is what I am using?

I have feeding issues but am not using these bullets, I am using hard cast lead. THanks

[Seth]

I TRIED to love the Precisions. Tried hard. Reset every die in the press about 10x, chrono'd several times, and still couldn't deal with them.

Too much smoke, too much trash in the barrel, and the stink...

I went back to a MG JHP with 320 and its perfect. Clean, accurate, smokeless and no cleanup.

[yoshidaex]

What is a U die? Does a factory crimp die differ from a bullet seat and crimp die which is what I am using?I have feeding issues but am not using these bullets, I am using hard cast lead. THanks

U die is a undersize sizing/primer decapping die.

The U die referenced here is made by Lee. EGW has one also made by Lee though I'm not 100% certain if it's made or modified to different specs.

A FCD removes the flare after the bullet is seated but also sizes rounds to "factory" dimensions.

Numerous topics regarding the FCD use. Some people like them, some people don't.

[yoshidaex]

That is exactly the issue that I have with my barrel. I also use a G-Rx die. My beef with these is that they seem to be too finicky. They will work but only if you use "these dies", and if you follow "this procedure", and use "this powder", and shoot them at "this speed"... Life is too short to add an over-complicated loading process to the mix.

It might be over complicated but if you're trying to shoot more by spending less, moly/lead is a reasonable practice option.

[DougCarden]

It is not the powder. For some reason the coating is getting scraped off, and the base of the bullet is melting and coating your barrel.

Try regular sized brass and just a normal crimp with the case mouth belled enough to start the whole circumference of the bullet into the case.

If that doesn't work, then I would look at another bullet. I am not badmouthing that particular bullet, but if I remember correctly it is a swaged core, and not a hardcast core. Some guns don't like some bullets....that is just the way it is...

DougC