Loves2Shoot Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Is Flicking Really Slower? I've been shooting my sig p226 and am just starting to switch back to my SV so I decided to take some video of basic skills to see where I'm at. I noticed I'm flicking again, but is it really costing me anything? Watching my left hand I go straight for the mag and to the well, although the right hand is moving a bit it is ready once the mag is there. I don't know that I could grab it and get it to the mag well any faster. I know there are some out there that swear flicking is slow, but I just don't see losing anything. I know I'm not that fast, but I think this reload isn't that bad. With SS and production the mags don't seem to fall fast enough for me without the flick. Any comments are welcome. I think this little experiment only really proved the following: 1. If you think that you have to "Use the force" to reload decently you are mistaken. On every one of these I consciously looked at the mag on the belt, then the mag well, then the target. You can't out run your eyes (and I try). All my outakes consisted of reloads where I skipped looking at any one of these reference points. 2. You can flick, half flick, or no flick it matters not as long as you have the magwell in the proper position one the mag gets there. 3. If you get the mag there before the 1st one is gone it don't work to well, so be happy when you reload before the mag hits the ground, that should be good enough, now do it 20 times in a row to work on your visual disipline. 4. The hardest part about reloading is visual discipline, for me. Reload with flick Reload with semi flick Reload with no flick ps. if anyone knows where to get some decent FREE mpg editing software that would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 I really don't think you lose anything as long as the flip is finished by the time the (new) mag is coming up. You will be doing "one more thing", when you could just be standing there looking at your visual cue on the magwell. When I set the timer for one second on my dry-fire reloads, if I don't do a flip (or, at least a pause) to get the old mag out...it won't clear the gun in time and I'll have to wait...or I shove the old mag back in with the new one. Lately I have been re-examining all the old "standards" when it comes to draws and reloads. Searching for my truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Seems to me that as long as: 1) your weak hand gets the new mag as fasty as it can, 2) the gun is ready to accept the new mag as soon as it gets there, 3) the mag is in as fast as possible, and 4) the gun is back on the target as fast as possible, any technique can be perfect. Besides, if you don't flick but use that "classic" technique and do it fast enough, it will be a flick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 I flick for the simple reason that i have problems being patient enough to wait for the mag to drop all the way out before jamming the mag (or my finger ) in there. The extra motion seems to give me a visual cue for when the mag can go in. Or maybe i just need to practice hitting the mag button faster . James Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Dunn Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Holy crap my reloads suck! It didn't seem to me that you were flicking all that much, as much as you were tilting the gun ASAP to accept the new mag. My advice: Shave your head and join the army! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 I'm not so sure you are flicking. It looks to me like the movement you are calling a flick is a byproduct of hitting the mag release. It is hard to tell with the video. IMO, if you need slow motion to see if you are flicking, worry about something else.... The only, and I mean only, thing I would question is, what are you looking at when your head turns to the left? It kinda looks like you are watching your left hand. I must go practice now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 Nice! I don't thing you're losing a great deal of time on the reload. I've wondered about this flip thing too. I don't intentionally try to flip the empty out of the gun. I've pretty much abandonded oversized mag buttons and weakend release springs. So, I hit the release pretty hard which induces a certain amount of flip to the gun. I see the well bounce right and return just after I stab the button. The empty still falls near my right foot. I'm not being a tactibilly about this. I've had "match trauma" because of big buttons and weak springs. I have a lot more confidence grabbing the gun out of a box or off a table when it doesn't have a big button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 21, 2004 Share Posted February 21, 2004 L2S I don't know if "flicking" costs you any time or not, but you don't see TT doing it in the video. Good enough for TT, good enough for this country boy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 22, 2004 Author Share Posted February 22, 2004 Thanks for the input. I haven't done the video thing in awhile and input is always helpful. I edited my original post with some better video. TT is the man for sure, as well as a good man also. Thanks for all the input, I guess you get to a point where you want to get faster and there really isn't much room to grow so you go looking for what you can. Replies: I use a standard release and spring. The rest seem to cause more problems unless you have unusually short fingers, and I don't have big hands. When the light is bad I tend to tilt my head left to get a better view of the mag well, but with good light it isn't necessary. If shaving my head would make my shooting like TT's then I'd be bald in a heart beat and have no girlfriend Shooting isn't everything, if you saw my girlfriend you'de understand Ong, you're just too fast, yea it sucks getting your fingers pinched, especially in a match. One thing I learned watching TT is he hits the mag button way fast, I think that is a huge thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Capizzo Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 This must be one of those "if it works for you" kinda things. Everyone "knows" you shouldn't put the weak hand index finger on the front of the trigger guard, but Jerry Barnhardt and Eric G. shoot o.k. that way. Everyone "knows" you shouldn't add extra movement to anything we're doing, but I believe Todd's a "flicker" and some of the better shooters in my bunch are flickers also. Find something else to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeper Posted February 22, 2004 Share Posted February 22, 2004 Sweet reloads!!! Did you notice on the last video that your head starts and ends in two different spots. It is tilted down at the end more than at the begining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoNsTeR Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 re: video software try this: http://www.virtualdub.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 I-don't-even-want... to analyze my reloads. After weaning myself on a large frame Glock, flicking the gun and stripping the mag became second nature. I didn’t even realize it until at ’02 Nats when ShooterGrrl’s husband said “..hey you reach up there pretty fast when you grab the mag…to strip it out...” As long as I can hit the R-load in under 1.30 and get the points afterwards, it's up to someone else to beat it. Some do, some don't.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 23, 2004 Author Share Posted February 23, 2004 re: video softwaretry this: http://www.virtualdub.org/ Thanks, that will do me fine. It is cool becasue you can go frame by frame and see what you are doing. TDean, Cool, you shoot great, and if I can gain something, anything, anywhere against you I'll take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted February 23, 2004 Share Posted February 23, 2004 As long as your not flicking anything from your nose its no problem. I flick sometimes and get reloads at 1.1 to 1.3 seconds. Dont worry about it, worry about getting all a's and not miss or hit a no shoot or moving too slowly from box to box, or having a faster draw, or better transitions, or stage breakdown plan, etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 24, 2004 Share Posted February 24, 2004 L2S, I would think about the yaw to the left the gun is positioned in for the reload (muzzle left). I think I am going to work on keeping my muzzle more forward. So, that my front sight down't whip onto the target from the left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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