Speed or accuracy first

[BBoyle]

I think speed first. In my opinion someone that is trying to reasonably push it will actually see the sight picture faster than someone that is going for a perfect sight every shot. When you finally are able to see the sights at speed and know whether it was a a/c or d/miss then you can work on visual patience for accuracy. Then you will eventually know it was an A high left hit or a c/d line hit and determine if a follow up is needed instantly. Everything happens right in front of us but it takes a while for us to actually learn to see it. Once you do see it you make strides by huge leaps and bounds.

Again just my opinion but I believe we all got into this for the fun aspect of the speed.

Brian

[Flexmoney]

What is "speed"?

[Jman]

What is "speed"?

The distance one travels divided by the time it took to travel it....I think

[Paul Burtchell]

Physics The rate or a measure of the rate of motion, especially: a. Distance traveled divided by the time of travel.b. The limit of this quotient as the time of travel becomes vanishingly small; the first derivative of distance with respect to time.c. The magnitude of a velocity.2. Swiftness of action.3. a. The act of moving rapidly.b. The state of being in rapid motion; rapidity

[G-ManBart]

Well, tell us the story

I didn't have time to make a spreadsheet, but I quickly ran the numbers on the top 4 or 5. I didn't write them all down, but it looks like K.C. shot 1694 points to JJ's 1686. The other three were all lower than that, as I recall. R,

[Merlin Orr]

Jman's avatar is both the visual and written answer to the question of speed or accuracy. .....

A solid foundation from which to work is required with

other skill sets carefully added in a balanced manner until the final possible height of your abilities is obtained.

If any one particular aspect of you skill set overweighs the other it leads to a collapse with a lesser and therefore unsatisfactory level of achievement.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Merlin Orr

[BBoyle]

What is "speed"?

"speed" is also an amphetamine, which is an illigal drug used by college kids.

I meant we all started USPSA so we could shoot fast and have fun doing it.

[Flexmoney]

Jman's avatar is both the visual and written answer to the question of speed or accuracy. .....

A solid foundation from which to work is required with

other skill sets carefully added in a balanced manner until the final possible height of your abilities is obtained.

If any one particular aspect of you skill set overweighs the other it leads to a collapse with a lesser and therefore unsatisfactory level of achievement.

His avatar is good.

I am careful in how I think of balance, however. For those that have been around here for a while, you may recall I used to have a yin~yang avatar. One day I realized that was limiting. To me, it came to represent dualism, which I found to be static.

I do like the way you described his avatar. (I am a believer in solid foundation levels...which allow the upper levels to come into being.)

[cyburg]

You can never miss fast enough...

[Jman]

Jman's avatar is both the visual and written answer to the question of speed or accuracy. .....

A solid foundation from which to work is required with

other skill sets carefully added in a balanced manner until the final possible height of your abilities is obtained.

If any one particular aspect of you skill set overweighs the other it leads to a collapse with a lesser and therefore unsatisfactory level of achievement.

His avatar is good.

I am careful in how I think of balance, however. For those that have been around here for a while, you may recall I used to have a yin~yang avatar. One day I realized that was limiting. To me, it came to represent dualism, which I found to be static.

I do like the way you described his avatar. (I am a believer in solid foundation levels...which allow the upper levels to come into being.)

Good stuff.

Thanks!

[Matt Griffin]

can someone get a breakdown for all the other divisions as well to see if it was a trend for all of them or just a single division. it very well may be a trend that some divisions are speed based while others are accuracy based. itd be nice to see more than one example.

It's not necessarily a trend, but it is a function of the hit factor of the stage. Can you exceed the other shooters by enough seconds to offset the likely point loss your speed will cause? Bloody hard question to answer in the heat of battle, that's why it's usually best just to set an accuracy goal (Brian's 95% of available points works pretty well) and let the speed fall where it may.

Anecdotally, where Jerry M. and I finished neck-and-neck, counting Deltas and Mikes he was down 37 points for the match, whereas I was down 121. That's a big, big difference, especially with hit factors between four and seven.

H.

[Corey]

very true on the HF comment. some stages require blazing speed and live with the results where others will kill you when miss the A zone. i guess it comes down to knowing when to blaze and when to aim . and then being able to do both on command

[benos]

Regardless of the distance, to me it came down to always shooting A's as quickly as possible.

be

[t0066jh]

When a person starts out in this sport, their Temperament determines whether they start out speed or accuracy oriented. I am a precise, controlled, detail oriented person, hence I started out shooting accurately. To me, hitting any target, no matter how small or at what distance, was exciting. The TGO, on the other hand, is an "all over the place" kind of guy. So for him shooting fast was exciting.

In the end, to make into the top bracket, either type must master what he wasn't his innate tendency. For Robbie, it happened when (as Flyin40 said about KC) when his accuracy "caught up" to his speed.

So to me it's not so important where you start out. How you get to where you need to end up is what matters.

be

Robbie had a similar observation at last month Drillmaster Club. "Speed trap" was the drill. Basically the speed oriented person tends to speed up when faced with a difficult target, the precise shooter slows down more than necessary. Both responses are counter to what is necessary. The drill showed you what kind of shooter you were.

Now to your last sentence. "How to get to where you need to end up is what matters." Do I understand that to mean if you're slow...practice transitions and splits,.... If you're fast, practice shooting groups?

Edited December 20, 2010 by t0066jh

[pjb45]

When I started out I was fast enough to make C right away. The push to B was a little slower. Hanging out in B became problemmatic. The Mikes and No Shoots were killing me. I have spent the last couple of years undoing all the previous training scars. I had to unlearn bad habits and replace them with good ones. This is not easy. I wish I knew then what I know now. I would have focused on accuracy.

Ten years ago, the biggest name in training was Matt Burkett-I am not trying to degrade any other trainers out there so please no flame war on this statement-. Trying to find someone with excellent fundamentals to teach you this game, week after week was hard.

Brian and Robbie pushed each other to excel by trying, evaluating, and modifying the basics of our sport. In reality to me, there are two aspects of our sport that have to work in harmony; a)the ability to shoot As and B)physcial movement.

If you focus on speed, it will help you progress to a point, then either you have to have the accuracy to excel or you will crash and burn. When I see people shooting below their average (statiscally significant below) I conclude these people worked on their speed at the expense of their accuracy.

Re-read the training posts. There are stories of Manny pushing people to shoot accurately, Max working with the Jamacians (i think) to draw and hit a round plate at 25 yards in less than 1.3 seconds. Then there are posts about how to move efficiently. Too master this sport you need to do both.

Your training sessions should always end with accuracy drills. Movement drills should be in the beginning of each practice session. In a local match, I would recommend you do both on different stages, one stage work on movement and another work on accuracy. Get 90% of hits to be A on your accuracy stage.

I am of the belief that accuracy and speed can be learned by everyone. Physical limitations are just that, you can only be as good as your potential. To hit your potential you need honest assessments and a training program to address your strengths and weaknesses.

Edited December 20, 2010 by pjb45

[glknineteen]

People who shoot slowly but accurately and people who miss everything at mach 5 are both in the same boat in a lot of ways. They are both doing what they do well, and neglecting the other side of the game. The trick is to hone your skills in what you do well, and work very hard at what you don't. The cool thing about this sport is you really can't camp out in the accuracy camp or the speed camp and continue to improve. You have to do both well.

[benos]

People who shoot slowly but accurately and people who miss everything at mach 5 are both in the same boat in a lot of ways. They are both doing what they do well, and neglecting the other side of the game. The trick is to hone your skills in what you do well, and work very hard at what you don't. The cool thing about this sport is you really can't camp out in the accuracy camp or the speed camp and continue to improve. You have to do both well.

Excellent summary.

be

[Sam]

Flex, I characterize "speed" as what we have left when all hesitation has been eliminated.

[benos]

Flex, I characterize "speed" as what we have left when all hesitation has been eliminated.

I like that.

On a long enough time line, the survivability rate for everything drops to zero.

-benos