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Speed or accuracy first


BigGabe

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Hope this is in the right forum. I've only shot a couple of matches and I've improved from the 1st to the 2nd match. I was wondering, even though I shot more accuratly then some of my squad mates they scored higher because they shot the stage quicker. I know the goal is to be quick and accurate, but what do you need to work on first. Would it be better to develop more speed then accuracy or be accurate first then try to pick up the pace. Any tips or suggestions would be appreciated. I shoot in limited. Thanks. Gabe

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develop the accuracy. speed will come. you DO have to shoot fast, but when you push it too far you will start to see misses and No-shoot hitse and your score will hurt. a general idea is to be able to shot about 90-95% of the available points. if you are shooting less than that on a stage, you need to slow down a bit. if you are above that, try to pick up the speed to shave some time off.

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The problem is that Corey and Chris are both right. You need to build the confidence to know you can make the hits. You also need to push yourself to the point that you are not making your hits. My vote is that it's harder to build speed, shoot fast.

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Start with speed! You can always teach someone to be accurate, but if someone doesn't have the ability to shoot fast / move fast then they will never increase in speed.

I like this. I'm relatively new but have done the math over and over comparing different point/time configurations. I made a simple Excel matrix to see the threshold of where speed vs time finally meet. Speed trumps score most of the time as long as you don't have any penalties or mikes. Like I said, I'm new and not even classified yet. But like anything that I get addicted to, I like to analyze the game.

OP-I went through the same thing as you at my first match. I took the time to get all alphas and at the end of the day wondered why I finished so far below everyone else even though I had scored more points.

My current focus is to go as fast as I can go while still getting all of my hits. If I'm missing, I know I'm breaking the shot before getting an "adequate enough" sight picture. I say "adequate enough" because I know that it doesn't have to be perfect to get the hits that I'm OK with. If a target has a no shoot attached, I give it more attention and obtain a better than adequate sight picture.

For now, I'm perfectly happy shooting Alpha-Charlie all day long as long as I'm doing it faster than someone shooting all alphas.

ETA-For reference, someone shooting all Alphas on a 120 point stage in 15 seconds is the same hit factor as someone shooting all Charlies in 12 seconds.

120

#'s Points Time

A 24 120 15

B 0

C 0

D 0 0

HF

Total 120 8

120

#'s Points Time

A 0 0 12

B 0 0

C 24 96

D 0

HF

Total 96 8

Edited by d_striker
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I'm in the accuracy camp. Even though sometimes I go too fast and tank a stage.

Case in point,

Sunday I shot a club match, went too fast on three of the stages, never got out of the bottom half overall.

Usually I'm in the top half and occasionally the top quarter.

Managed to hit a NS in the exact middle of the upper A-Zone, plenty of mikes, and I didn't even see two targets on one stage (through a port.)

Speed killed me. Granted, I'm shooting Production, but still.

For Limited, with major scoring, I think you have to find the proper balance, and d_striker makes an excellent point.

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Break down each stage as separate small ones. Make sure you identify targets that you can hammer all Alphas on FAST. Then do it...FAST.

Don't drop points on close ones. High finishers won't, at least not many.

Alpha/Charlie's on targets at 12+ yards won't bite hard as long as you don't grind (taking to long) on them.

Speed wins this thing.

Jim

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Start with speed! You can always teach someone to be accurate, but if someone doesn't have the ability to shoot fast / move fast then they will never increase in speed.

Hard to teach someone to be accurate quickly.

But if someone doesnt show the ability to shoot / move fast, I dont care how accurate they are they will never be FAST! Athleticism is harder to teach than accuracy is.

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The problem I see with people that start out stressing the accuracy first is that it gets hard for them to stop agonizing over the sight picture. They want it to be perfect for every shot before the fire that shot.

When practicing push the speed, when in a match shoot as fast as you can see the sight to get good hits.......sounds easy enough. :ph34r:

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Everybody had good points. I know on my second match I was more familiar with the process. My problem was I was trying to be accurate thus the speed suffered. I went through all stages with no mikes, mostly alpha's and a few charlies and deltas. We've got one match left this year, I'm thinking it might be to my advantage to try turning on some speed and not worry as much about trying to get all alpha's and see what happens. Gabe

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Both are very important to this game (speed and accuracy). But, in the grand scheme of things, what will your score be if you shoot a stage that should take a normal shooter 15 seconds to shoot all alpha's, but you shoot it in 7.5 having all C's, D's and a bunch of Mikes? There is an old addage, "You can't miss fast enough to win", and while with one or two misses, you very well may be able to win, try it with multiple misses (4,5,6 or more). Yes, speed wins the game, but it is nothing without accuracy. Speed comes from repitition, doing things over and over. Think of it like this: Would you rather read a book by a typist that has no accuracy, but can type 120 words INCORRECTLY a minute? Or a book by someone who types 60 words a minute, but is dead accurate?

Speed comes from repetition.....

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looking over this thread again and the link posted (good read btw) i dont think "speed" is the proper word we should be using here. We shouldnt do things "faster". we should do them SOONER. get the sights to the next target sooner. get the fresh mag on a reload into the gun sooner. get the sights back on target sooner. get to the next position sooner. When looking at this from an outside perspective it looks faster (because thats what the timer says) but in reality nothing is done faster from one person to another or one drill to the next. things are just done sooner. :sight:

that being said, you still need to hit what you are aiming at. i like using the ballpark figure of ~90% of available points. if im below that im giving up too many points to competitors. if im well above that, im not doing things soon enough and sacrificing time and thus having a lower HF on stages.

you gotta be "fast" but you gotta hit what you aim at. I have plenty of examples from my first year in this game... :ph34r:

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This is all a lot simpler that it seems. You cannot force time a shot, like BE says you have to see what you need to see and break the shot. That is all there is and that is all that it needs to be. Take only the time you need to make the shot.

Now as far as going faster, there are lots of opportunities to improve your speed, like learning to take off on the correct foot and how to enter a shooting position ready to shoot,, the draw, the reload and all the other things we do on a COF we can force those, but you can't force a shot. Eliminate all pauses.

In the simpliest terms it is points per second so beyond taking only the time you need to make the shot, try to be shooting more of the time you are on the stage.

Edited by CocoBolo
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See it.

When you see the sights, you can press the trigger.

See faster = shoot faster.

+1 Also, IMHO, if you think about what really makes a stage "fast" for a shooter isn't necessarily how fast they're pulling the trigger. The majority of time "lost" comes from improper movement, non-aggressive movement, slow reloads, slow sight picture, improper stage breakdown/confusion during a stage, etc. So, I don't think that you can just say "should I concentrate on shooting for speed or accuracy?" It has to be the whole enchilada. If you shoot fast without accuracy you won't improve, and if you shoot for all A's without kicking it in the ass you won't improve. It has to be the whole set of skills working together. I did the same thing when I first started (shoot fast or shoot accurate?) and have now learned that I can pull the trigger as fast as anyone can. But, I can't move like the GM's do and I'm not as smooth on reloads, footwork, etc etc. I shot with Chris Keen at the MI Sectional and he moves like a Cheetah on steroids. Explosive, aggressive movement and continuously moves while shooting. Shoot as fast as you can see your sights, learn to move smoothly (smooth is fast), nail those reloads and so on. It takes the whole package to REALLY improve in this game, not just being accurate or fast alone. Just my .02.

Edited by alpha-charlie
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Only shoot as fast as you can call all your shots.

be

I seem to slow down and get less accurate as I call for more shots....

JT

So you shoot faster and more accurately if you don't call your shots? If so, you must be tapped into the force.

:)

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Do both. From the moment you stop doing anything else and start making the shot, there is no correct action other than shooting for the A zone. The distance to the target and your body instability will dictate what that sight picture has to be, but at no point should you shoot for a C. Speed happens in all of the other spaces outside of "making the shot" and there are dozens of ways to make it happen. Just don't confuse getting to the shot with making the shot.

H.

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