Should i be concerned?

[waynes_world_45]

I am brand new to Open and just ran 1k rounds of 9mm major with 8.0gr of HS6 with a 124gr MG CMJ with CCI SPP....before I read that y'all use magnum primers.

should I be concerned with my loads? are they unsafe?

I am shooting an SVI with a 3 port comp (see avatar)

Thanks, guys

[G-ManBart]

Nothing really unsafe about it. The SPM or SR primers help avoid primer flow/smearing, that can clog up firing pin tunnels, or cause shavings that find their way into the extractor tunnel etc. They are slightly less likely to blow out, but I'm not sure how much...regardless, if you get to that point, things are already out of hand.

The big question is how do your current primers look on fired cases? Are they totally flattened, cratered, smeared, or do they look reasonably normal? R,

[calishootr]

no, the magnum primers are typically used to get a better 'hotter' burn, more complete if you will, back in the day we usedto run small rifle primers because of primer flow, nowadays especially with the advent of XL firing pins that has been put to bed. your CCI primers are 'harder' than most so you should be fine, just look forthe usual high pressure signs...ie..flattened primers/little to no firing pin indent etc...

[waynes_world_45]

I'll have to check the fired brass I kept.

I made sure to load 1X fired brass, but is the brass that I shoot out of this gun safe to reload in my production gun, or should I just let it lie where it falls? (which I do at matches, but I save practice brass)

[G-ManBart]

I shoot mostly .38SC, but I have a 9 Major gun, and I don't reload that brass...even for Minor loads (which are often very high pressure because of fast powders and heavy bullets). I know some folks do reload it, but I also know that some folks have seen it be pretty badly oversized and need roll sizing to make it work properly...it's just not worth that much trouble to me. R,

Edited October 26, 2010 by G-ManBart

[Whoops!]

...

Small pistol primers are safer and better than magnum primers in my honest opinion because it won't burn as hot or as quickly, which would reduce pressure peaks and work the compensator better.

I run a Federal SPP (notoriously soft) behind 9.3 gns of HS6 under Winchester 115 gn fmjs. The primers didn't look flat until I went over 9.1 grains and there is never any signs of cratering with 9.3 gns loaded at 1.155-1.16."

I know at least two people who run 8.4 gns under 124 gns at the same OAL in 2011 platforms, although they choose to use small rifle primers. I would never recommend magnum primers.

[waynes_world_45]

...

Small pistol primers are safer and better than magnum primers in my honest opinion because it won't burn as hot or as quickly, which would reduce pressure peaks and work the compensator better.

I run a Federal SPP (notoriously soft) behind 9.3 gns of HS6 under Winchester 115 gn fmjs. The primers didn't look flat until I went over 9.1 grains and there is never any signs of cratering with 9.3 gns loaded at 1.155-1.16."

I know at least two people who run 8.4 gns under 124 gns at the same OAL in 2011 platforms, although they choose to use small rifle primers. I would never recommend magnum primers.

well that seems to go against the current thinking...thanks for the input...now I'm more confused than ever

[CocoBolo]

...

Small pistol primers are safer and better than magnum primers in my honest opinion because it won't burn as hot or as quickly, which would reduce pressure peaks and work the compensator better.

I run a Federal SPP (notoriously soft) behind 9.3 gns of HS6 under Winchester 115 gn fmjs. The primers didn't look flat until I went over 9.1 grains and there is never any signs of cratering with 9.3 gns loaded at 1.155-1.16."

I know at least two people who run 8.4 gns under 124 gns at the same OAL in 2011 platforms, although they choose to use small rifle primers. I would never recommend magnum primers.

well that seems to go against the current thinking...thanks for the input...now I'm more confused than ever

Wayne - I shoot both 38SC and 9 Major. You can use SPP, SPM, SRP, in your 9 major. Using SPP makes the most sense as the other primers like SRP small rifle primers masks the high pressure signs. Can or should you use your twice fired brass (one having been major) in your production reloading. I sure don't see an issue with that. If you have a lot of rejects this could change your mind, or if you find the primers are very lose this could change your mind as well.

I load them major once and walk away don't look back and don't bend over. If I pickup brass it will be the noobs factory ammo brass that's hitting the ground.

38SC on the other hand I pick it up and I work at finding it, reload it till it splits.

[Chills1994]

I am an equal opportunity brass whore.

I pick up just about any and all brass after the USPSA and steel plate matches.

I was reloading on a 550 using the EGW/Lee undersize die and a Lee Factory Crimp Die.

if it has been through a 9mm Major open gun, I don't really notice and the Beretta 92 doesn't seem to mind.

I have got a little test in mind and I will be back later to post the results.

[JThompson]

doesn't matter about primers as long as they light...

What you need to watch for is breechface getting jetted with hot gas. There are several causes for it including soft primers with hot loads or light loads with hard primers.

Have a look here:

http://www.brianenos...=1

JT

Edited October 26, 2010 by JThompson

[G-ManBart]

Small pistol primers are safer and better than magnum primers in my honest opinion because it won't burn as hot or as quickly, which would reduce pressure peaks and work the compensator better.

That's pure theory which probably couldn't be proven if you had an entire lab dedicated to it. If I go from SPP to SPM, and see a 15fps difference in velocity (typical), it's a pretty tiny change in pressure, but it's zero change in the volume of the gas, which is what really works the comp.

But hey, if you can figure that out, could you give us the order of primers in actual rank of brissance?

I know at least two people who run 8.4 gns under 124 gns at the same OAL in 2011 platforms, although they choose to use small rifle primers. I would never recommend magnum primers.

SRP show about the same amount of increase in velocity over SPM that SPM shows over SPP. That means the SPM are milder than SR (within the same brand), but some SR primers are no hotter than some SPM, so gross generalizations don't work well here. Lots of us have run 100K+ of SR or SPM primers with zero problems. If SPM, or SRP, were causing a problem, we'd have heard about it....oh, maybe 20 years ago. R,

Edited October 26, 2010 by G-ManBart

[G-ManBart]

I shoot both 38SC and 9 Major. You can use SPP, SPM, SRP, in your 9 major. Using SPP makes the most sense as the other primers like SRP small rifle primers masks the high pressure signs.

Primer signs are unreliable indicators of pressure, so the idea of pressure masking doesn't really work. You might already be well beyond pressure limits, but see nothing on the primers. Since I know any 9 Major load I come up with is already well over limits for even +P, I'd rather just not get shaved and smeared primer material in my gun to possibly lock something up (not just the firing pin). I've seen an extractor tunnel plugged with little shavings of primer cup material from someone using SPP. My .38SC Major load is right up near the max, so there again, it's a known already. R,

[GrumpyOne]

...

Small pistol primers are safer and better than magnum primers in my honest opinion because it won't burn as hot or as quickly, which would reduce pressure peaks and work the compensator better.

Not true. Gas is what works the comp, not pressure. I have run probably 30,000 magnum primers through my guns (in every type of load, from 38special/357 mag, 40 softball loads, 40 major, 38Super minor and major) and all I have found is that I get reliable ignition, every time. When loading majot PF loads, the SPP are probably the worst idea you could have, because of the risk of a blowout, cratering, smearing and shearing.

Oh, yeah, and I agree with Bart.....

[larry cazes]

SPP are probably the worst idea you could have, because of the risk of a blowout, cratering, smearing and shearing.

Oh, yeah, and I agree with Bart.....

I agree with Grumpy. Listen to the man and your breachface will thank you for it!

[Singlestack]

I'll have to check the fired brass I kept.

I made sure to load 1X fired brass, but is the brass that I shoot out of this gun safe to reload in my production gun, or should I just let it lie where it falls? (which I do at matches, but I save practice brass)

You should have fired one shot, stopped and examined the primer. Always examine your primers when working up a load.

[JThompson]

Not debated anything that has been said, but posting what I have seen. I use every piece of shit piece of brass and all different primers in both rifle and pistol and have never had an issue as long as I have had an L FP in the gun. I have seen some issues with flow with a standard FP. I use Matt's M2I version of the beast. It will also light almost anything out there... even high primers if they aren't too bad.

JT

[waynes_world_45]

Thanks for the input fellas...I checked the primers from the fired brass and they're fine....I'll not worry about this first load, but I am going to rum SPMPs next run...I'm also going to experiment with N350

Grumpy - you run Magnums in everything? Since they seem to be more readily available, I was thinking of running them in my production gun (147 Zero JHP w/3.3 TG in an XDM), but the one post above seems to indicate that wouldn't be safe. Thoughts?

[Maineac08]

I run small rifle magnums in all my pistols from open to production. I have had no issues at all (glock17 open, limited g35,m&p 40). about 25k so far and no troubles. I switched over due to the availability during the primer shortage. Most of my reloading friends all use them exclusively as well.

[GrumpyOne]

I'll have to check the fired brass I kept.

I made sure to load 1X fired brass, but is the brass that I shoot out of this gun safe to reload in my production gun, or should I just let it lie where it falls? (which I do at matches, but I save practice brass)

You should have fired one shot, stopped and examined the primer. Always examine your primers when working up a load.

+ INFINITY!

[GrumpyOne]

Thanks for the input fellas...I checked the primers from the fired brass and they're fine....I'll not worry about this first load, but I am going to rum SPMPs next run...I'm also going to experiment with N350

Grumpy - you run Magnums in everything? Since they seem to be more readily available, I was thinking of running them in my production gun (147 Zero JHP w/3.3 TG in an XDM), but the one post above seems to indicate that wouldn't be safe. Thoughts?

I run Win SPMP in EVERYTHING that takes a small primer, no matter what the load.

[MoNsTeR]

I've used nothing but Wolf SPP in my 9 major and it's been fine. As an experiment I loaded a couple of batches with Winchester SPM and Magtech SR, and they both chrono'd a tiny bit slower. When the Wolfs are gone I may switch to something like Win. SR so I only need to stock one kind of primer.

[CocoBolo]

Well I have seen some breach face damage in an Ininity gun I sold. In fact he toasted two breach faces in a short period of time. He was running SRP and pushing the envelope with N105, 3N38, 3N37 and N350 and who knows what else. I shot a lot of 38SC loads with SPP and AA#7 125g at 10.5gr in that same gun with no issues, also 115 at 10.9gr.. I'm not sure what he did to cause it but it cost him, the good thing was it was a repaceable breach face. That said if you work hard enough at it no primer is safe. In 38SC the only powder I had primer problems with was TruBlue beyond 8.3gr, at that level the primers were flowing and I got super face. I always run the Dawson extended firing pin and this seems to put a nice round dent in the primers.

Edited October 28, 2010 by CocoBolo

[G-ManBart]

Well I have seen some breach face damage in an Ininity gun I sold. In fact he toasted two breach faces in a short period of time. He was running SRP and pushing the envelope with N105, 3N38, 3N37 and N350 and who knows what else. I shot a lot of 38SC loads with SPP and AA#7 125g at 10.5gr in that same gun with no issues, also 115 at 10.9gr.. I'm not sure what he did to cause it but it cost him, the good thing was it was a repaceable breach face. That said if you work hard enough at it no primer is safe. In 38SC the only powder I had primer problems with was TruBlue beyond 8.3gr, at that level the primers were flowing and I got super face. I always run the Dawson extended firing pin and this seems to put a nice round dent in the primers.

Most likely, that was old brass with primer pockets that were letting gas escape around the primer. I ran a batch of 2-3K cases many, many times and started to get a touch of erosion (using Fed SPM, which are fairly soft). Now I'll toss the cases after 8-10 uses. R,

[Chills1994]

well I did my little experiment.

I took ten winchester small rifle primers and weighed them.... 32.5 grains

then I took ten winchester small pistol primers and weighed them... 31.2 grains .

then I measured one primer of each variety.

the results were the same:

0.171" in diameter

0.115" "tall"

cup thickness = 0.013"

I carefully used a needle to pry out the anvil from the cup. then used the slim knife edges of my digital calipers to measure the "wall" thickness...err...cup thickness.

the only other noticeable difference was that the small pistol primers had a reddish tinted anvil area. the small rifle primer anvils were blue.

my guess is that the metal cup and anvil components of the two primers are identical. it's just the compound they are filled with is slightly different. hence, the two different colors. that could explain the 1.3 grain difference in weight between the two groups of ten primers.

Edited October 29, 2010 by Chills1994

[G-ManBart]

well I did my little experiment.

I took ten winchester small rifle primers and weighed them.... 32.5 grains

then I took ten winchester small pistol primers and weighed them... 31.2 grains .

then I measured one primer of each variety.

the results were the same:

0.171" in diameter

0.115" "tall"

cup thickness = 0.013"

I carefully used a needle to pry out the anvil from the cup. then used the slim knife edges of my digital calipers to measure the "wall" thickness...err...cup thickness.

the only other noticeable difference was that the small pistol primers had a reddish tinted anvil area. the small rifle primer anvils were blue.

my guess is that the metal cup and anvil components of the two primers are identical. it's just the compound they are filled with is slightly different. hence, the two different colors. that could explain the 1.3 grain difference in weight between the two groups of ten primers.

Very well could be, but I wouldn't be surprised if the cup material was harder as well. WSP flatten more for me that WSR, in the same gun, loaded identically, so that's the only thing I can think of. R,