Occasional Light Loads Out Of 650

[Kevin Kline]

Any help here would be appreciated. I have a 650 with casefeeder and load 40 for Limited. I have been getting an occasional light load (5-8 loads out of 100). Sometimes it doesn't even cycle the slide and the hammer falls to half cock. The empty is in the chamber still after firing about half the time. When I take the case out, it is black on one side. I have gone over everything I can think of 5 times and can't find the problem. I have been loading for 9 years and have never had a problem and haven't changed anything either recently. I have taken a break off for about a year or so, but have occasioally still loaded on the machine.

I use once fired Speer brass, never a problem chambering or sizing. 180gr jacketed, 5.1 N320, 1.200 OAL, WSR primers. I see the powder in every case as I load it, but still some come up short. Any ideas????

[EricW]

This is a wild guess, but could it be static electricity causing the powder to bridge? Hanging a dryer sheet in the powder measure and pinching it in with the lid will usually do the trick and kill the static.

Other things:

Accidentally short-stroking the press (not likely)

Powder die isn't adjusted down far enough to fully actuate the powder bar. It could have always been marginal and just now you're seeing it.

Foreign object in the powder measure itself.

You've got a new, funky Dillon powder measure and you don't have the powder bar return rod knob (blue thingy) twisted up far enough. The flange should just rest on the spring when the ram is down.

[Gun Geek]

Kevin:

Are you using the powder check system? You might adjust it so that it is extra sensitive to low charges.

Also, just make sure every thing is clean and correctly lubed.

I love my 650 and it works very well if you keep it clean and tuned. If it is not clean, oh brother what a PITA.

[Kevin Kline]

Thanks for the replies guys, I'll check them. No I don't have a powder check system cause I never had a problem before, but need to find something now.

Anyway, I'll do the dryer sheet for static electricity. My press is in the garage, does that affect the static electricity more? The blue wing nut flange thingy is adjusted enough that it engages the spring and rod, press is lubed and clean, and I'm sure I'm not short stroking. I might adjust the powder die down a little more and get a little more bell on the cartridge. I have a very, very slight bell on it, but not a lot, you think that would be enough to give me the light load?

And also, I'll do the dryer sheet and see if that helps. You pinch a corner of it in the powder measure lid so it hangs in there, but doesn't contact the powder?

Thanks again!!!!!!!!

[Kevin Kline]

Oh also, how long should it take for the dryer sheet to take affect?

[.40AET]

Kevin- The garage should have the same humididty levels as the outside air. Since you live in Florida, I would think that you would have higher relative humidity than the rest of us. Higher humidity would lead to less static electricity in the air. If your press was inside, then your air conditioner would be dehumidifying the house and increasing the possibility for static.

[snokid]

are you stroking the handle smoothly? going too fast can throw powder out of the cases?

sno

[schmitz]

Reading .40AET's post: press is in the garage?! A friend of mine had his press in the garage as well. He was reloading .38 Super and had similar problems. (AA No.7)

Kevin, when you're ready reloading do you leave the powder in the press? (Or are you emptying it?)

Moisture in your powder affects the load!

Check the Vihta manual about moisture and the effects on the performance of your powder! Always store your powder at a cool, DRY place. (Florida=high humidity!)

DVC, Henny.

Hope this info works for you!

[dillon]

Could be the blue wing nut on the return rod is not tight enough. When you push forward on the handle to seat a primer, the spring above the blue wing nut should be considerably compressed.

[EricW]

You pinch a corner of it in the powder measure lid so it hangs in there, but doesn't contact the powder?

What I saw and have done is to hang the sheet in an empty measure, then pour in the powder so that the sheet is pressed onto the side of the powder measure. You pinch the works in with the lid so it doesn't slide down. The effect should be immediate.

The tip off if you even need to worry about this is powder granules leaping up onto the sides of the measure when you fill it. The effect isn't subtle. FWIW, I haven't had to mess with it in years. Only back when I lived in a very arid area and was loading some absolutely bone dry powder.

[shred]

Also check the bolt holding the funky-cam and white-square-piece is on tight enough-- I had a problem once where that got loose and the white square occasionally popped out of track before dropping all the powder.

[kurtm]

Had this problem once with .223. The powder funnel, in the powder die, was partially plugged, and a bit rusty ( darn swamp coolers). every once in awhile it would throw low charges. It would also dump powder occasionally all over the shelol plate. If you see alot of excess powder this may be the cause. KURTM

[scooterj]

Have seen spider web partially plug powder funnel also.

[Jeeper]

I hate to tell everyone that they are wrong but you all are!!! JK. I had the same thing happen to me about a year ago. The light loads just popped and barely cycled the gun if at all. I went through and changed and cleaned everything on my press to no avail. I did the dryer sheets, the soap trick and everything. I couldnt figure it out. until I picked up a piece of brass that was from one of the light loads. I noticed that the primer cavity wasnt sealed up all the way. it was because the load was too light and it wouldnt seal the harder WSR primers. You never had a problem before probably because of a heavier load with the old power factor. I use the EXACT load you do, length, bullet, powder charge, exactly. It is the primers in conjunction with the once fired brass. Some of the once fired brass probably has a slightly loose primer pocket. I switched to WSP and it completely went away never to be heard from again. Just to make sure I loaded up some WSR the other day and sure enough it happened again. My 2 cents.

[dbletap_ed]

You stated that you use once fired brass. Going with the assumption that you are buying once fried brass from some source check for mud etc. being compacted in the bottom of the case. I had a batch of once fired brass where I had the same problem which turned out to be junk that did not come out in the tumbler.

[Kevin Kline]

THank you everyone for their input and help. You can't go anywhere else and get help like this, this quick. AFter finishing the Fl. Open match, I think you're both right and onto something. I talked with several shooters there and Kert Gaskill was telling me about corn cob media that gets caught up in the flash hole mixed with still wet rapid polish. He told me it was probably corn cob or other in the hole and not letting it fully ignite. I'll be checking that and Dble tap's idea as well.

The brass I use is once fired Speer brass from Speer Lawman ammo. My PD shoots tons of it and I get it from my PD range. But it is shot outside and sometimes in dirt , mud and other crap.

I will also try Jeepers idea because what you described to me is exactly what has happened to me. Most everything you had is exactly the same for me, so you're both onto something there and I greatly appreciate it.

[Jeeper]

Kevin

The next light load you have try and find the brass. I noticed that is was way dirtier than the others. I could also see where it was sealing the primer.

[EricW]

Kevin,

Not that I'm patient enough to do this, but try adding your polish to an empty tumbler (with media), run it for 15 minutes, THEN add your brass. That seems to break up the polish globs before they get into your cases. I always have problems with that, but use a 550 so I catch them, or most of them....I think....

[Gun Geek]

Kevin:

You last post raises a question about your loading sequence. If media is getting stuck in the flash hole (and that's the problem), it implies that you are not running a de-capping pin through the hole before you assemble the cartridge.

If your sequence is:

decap w/o sizing -> tumble -> size w/o decapping pin -> load

or

decap & size -> tumble -> load

then the plugged flash hole is a possibility. If you're using one of these sequences I think you need to change anyway - there's too much opportunity to for a problem if you take the cases directly from the tumbler and load them without making sure the flash hole is clean.

try:

tumble -> decap & size -> load

or

decap w/o sizing -> tumble -> decap again & size -> load

This last method is what I use. I use a Lee universal decapper then drop the decapped cases in the tumbler. This cleans the gunk out of the primer pockets. Then I use a regular size/decapper to make sure there is no crap in the flash hole. This method olny makes sense if you have a 650 or 1050 with a casefeed. Otherwise it takes waaaaay to long to handle the cases twice.

Also to reduce the clumping of the media, pour the polish in the tumbler and let it run 5 or 10 minutes.

Geek

[Kevin Kline]

Gun Geek,

I tumble, then decap and resize and load. The decapping pin should be taking it out, but I've had others tell me it will not knock out all the media if it gets stuck or wet w/ polish in it. It will knock some out, but not all of it, the decap pin just pushes some of it aside and leaves some.

Jeepers,

I have noticed and collected the cases afterward cause I thought it was a case head separation. The case is completely black on one side or 1/4 of the side and the rest looks OK. I 'll have to take a closer look at the primer pocket next time.

EricW

Yes, I will have to try that. Kert Gaskill also told me that and I have not been doing that. I normally add polish to the media and crumble it by hand for less than a minute and then immediately add brass.

Thanks to all,

[dbletap_ed]

When I had the problem with mud in the brass the decap pin just punched a nice hole in the mud which I guess then closed back up after reloading.

[Jeeper]

Kevin

That is EXACTLY what mine looked like. It isnt completely black but it is on one side. Check the primer next time and I bet you will find what I did. THe funny part is that if you step up to like 5.3 grains it goes away. It just isnt hot enough at 5.1 to seal the WSR primers. I thought I had a pic of one but I couldnt find it.

Keith

[benos]

To eliminate the "polish variable," try loading a few thousand rounds without using it. I never used it. Range brass goes in the tumbler with COARSE grade corn-cob media, tumbles for 15-30 minutes, out of the tumbler and into the "clean case box," then eventually into the casefeeder. That way there is nothing sticky to ever cause a problem. And the stray piece of media will be removed during the decapping.

Coarse grade corn-cob media is all you need.

[Kevin Kline]

Brian,

Is Course Grade Corn Cob media the same as bought from Dillon in the Blue Press?

[RH45]

Last summer, I also had the problem with the occasional, light load, like Kevin, in my Glock 35. It was the exact, same load I had been running all year(only 130 pf, for IPSC production, and IDPA), and of course, it never gave me any problems, until just before the state matchs. I think I'll try the dryer sheet thing. I always see powder stick to the sides of my powder measure when I fill it.

Thanks Kevin, for starting this thread!!!