FRANKIE D Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 This discussion is great so I had to chime in. I just bought the Witness Match 9mm a few months ago which came with the one mag. Oddly, this mag had a "long" follower and no spacer. I probably shot that one mag about 500 rounds without a problem. I recently bought 4 more mags which came with the front spacer. I was concerned about this having read about the front spacer mag issues but I shot them a bit and they worked fine. Thought I was one of the lucky ones. Nyet! Lately this has beeen the issue: with only 6 rounds loaded the last or next to last round will "jam" in the chamber with about 1/4" of brass showing. Gun will not go fully into battery. I cannot push the slide forward to fully chamber the round nor can I eject it unless I drop the mag first. And of course this has too be an intermittant issue. The same mags won't always have the problem. Sometimes the mag feeds ok through the last round and sometimes it doesn't. It's really making me nuts (moreso than I already am anyway). I'm not averse to buying new mags if you think it might solve my problem. I don't think it's an ammo isssue because I can put the "jammed" round back into a mad and it shoots. I use factory fmj,rn usually federal or remington and it happens with all ammo. So, whatcha think? CZ mags? Pull the spacers off and replace followers with long ones? Anything anyone can contribute is gratefully appreciated. PS - Tanfoglian is right - This forum is the best place for tech support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FRANKIE D Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 I am considering getting a EAA Witness Match in 9MM. It is SA only - what kind of trigger pull weight should I expect? Also what does EAA consider to be a "longslide" as far as their conversion barrels are concerned?? What kind of optics mounts are available for the witness? Mine came out of the box a bit over 5lbs on the trigger. With a lot of polishing of moving parts, Henning's 13ld hammer spring and x-long firing pin I'v got it to about 2 lbs 12oz. Pretty sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfogliofan Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 I understand that it's the taper and I believe i was clear. OK maybe not enough. I'm sure if I had the mathematical formula it would be easier for people to understand. As the bullet comes up through the taper the front end has to be a certain width as the back end has to be to keep the bullet at a particular position. If the tapered front end is too narrow of a dimension this will cause the nose of the bullet to rise higher than the aft end. If the tapered front end is too wide and out of balance with the back end this would cause the nose of the bullet to slope downward. It's just simple math! You look at all the different double stack magazines it all comes down the this simple formula. You alter the mag to meet this criteria and bingo! I'm sure if Beven was on this he'd be saying the same thing. Ask an engineer. I shoot with three of them. Try listening in on a conversation about trinomial equations. Yuck! Now lets get it straight. I'm simply sharing a process that worked for me. This isn't a personal attack on anyone. If a person is offended by ones data I suggest filling out a hurt feelings report and submitting it to Dad. I'm sure he'll have a tissue for that snot bubble. Gun makers design their guns to function with specific dimension ammo. The nato 9mm parabellum specific length is 1.169". This is the number most all gun makers design their guns to run on. When you stray too far from this number your bound to run into problems. This could be the reason why some peoples large frame mags don't work. One thing I've learned is to do your research before giving up an "I'll tell you!" Somebody get me a calculator! I guess my point is don't be so quick to shoot down what could possibly help you and others because of your own pour experience. You don't know me or my process. Being open minded allows one to learn even from the people you don't necessarily want to here from. Anyhow, it's just a magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfogliofan Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 I suggest loading you mag up completely and looking under the first round. If you have a substantial amount of space between the second and third round your going to want to tune the lips. Once again, it's just what worked for me. I explained my technic back just a bit. What do you have to lose? A bad magazine? I'd get that hammer. I really need to get some dang photos of my mags posted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfogliofan Posted October 28, 2010 Share Posted October 28, 2010 Franky D, That's usually the case of a double feed. I would just get the CZ followers and tune the lips. doing so will drop the position of the first round clearing the second round from the slide eliminating the possibility of a double feed. Once you see a pic of my mag I think it will make it quite clear. I didn't think the slide would even strip off the top round once I was done but it works great this way. Go figure. I'll figure out how to post one hopefully tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealio Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Tanfogliofan, Hey sorry I came off wrong in my post. I apologize. We are all here to help each other out and I came off wrong which wasn't productive. Once again, I apologize. I'll give the lip tuning a try, but I'm still a little unclear on what angle the bullet should have when it's resting in the feed lips. Are you flattening it out so there is no gap to the bullet below, or making the nose stick up higher? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfogliofan Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 Nealio, No need to apologize at all, the mag problem gave me such frustration to a point to where I dug out some old CZ mags and glued shims on the the back and sides so I would have the same dimension as the large frames. Did they work? No. Just added to the frustration! Man did they look goofy! Yellow shim on the back and red on the sides. I got teased! lol I doodled fruitlessly for month's until I was clued in. Yong Lee, a local GM now shooting a Stock 2, was the one that explained it to me. Then reinforced by an aeronautical engineer who explained to me in a bunch of terms this jug headed carpenter didn't understand. I did get his point though. the angle you want the bullet to be is to be pointing exactly parallel with the line of the slide. Now remember the taper. If you were to draw a line right through a photo or drawing of the 9m bullet this is the line your paralleling with the line of the slide. Toeing in he lips will bring the front of the bullet down to this point. Like I said earlier, it's going to look as if the slide won't even engage the bullet but it does. It really drops the profile quite a bit. In doing this you'll look down below the first and second round and you'll notice the downward position tightens them up nicely. tapping in the given direction seems to spread the mag just a bit and strangely enough allows for the 17 round capacity. I didn't believe it even after I did it but all I know is no more nose dives. As low as they sit in the mag it's almost impossible because the front of the mag actually keeps it from going down. tomorrow evening I should have my camera cord from the wife, it's at her work, and share with everyone what it's supposed to look like. Nealio, we're cool! I feel your pain brother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lubecktech Posted October 29, 2010 Author Share Posted October 29, 2010 Do MecGar magazines work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfogliofan Posted October 29, 2010 Share Posted October 29, 2010 I believe Mecgar is the maker of the tanfoglio magazine. A friend of mine bought some Megcar mags for his Tanfo. and they looked totally identical. OH yah, front spacers to boot! I know, bummer! You would figure Mecgar would tighten up their tolerances. They do a bang up job on every other mag they sell. If i could only get a SVI mag to fit! Oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfogliofan Posted November 1, 2010 Share Posted November 1, 2010 OK guys. I just figured out the whole photobucket thing. I'll have the pics of the magazine with a detailed explanation of the what and whys with them. I'm at work right now so I have to wait to get home to do it. They will be up this evening for sure. Boy am I not a computer guy! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfogliofan Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 (edited) So I haven't quite figured out the Photo bucket! Edited November 4, 2010 by Tanfogliofan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealio Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 Tanfogliofan, One thing that is interesting is that you stated you took a CZ mag, glued a spacer on it, and that didn't work very well. I did the same thing with a CZ mag and put a Tanfoglio short follower in it and now that is my best magazine by far. In fact this winter I'm going to try and make a stainless spacer to convert my gun to use the small frame CZ mags. I wonder why we got such different results? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfogliofan Posted November 3, 2010 Share Posted November 3, 2010 I think the problem I had with it was the magazines catch. I don't think I had the shims up high enough to keep the mag from shifting side to side. I took down the nub on my mag release a touch to smooth the drop of my mags and when I would insert and start to fire the thing would drop out. I used it just a few times before the glue gave up along with me on the thing. If you got it to work, cudos! Maybe I'll have to give it another go. I like CZ's 26 round big stick and if I was able to get that to work for my future Tanfo open gun that would be the cats meow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealio Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Yeah my spacer is about 1/2" from the top (if I remember correctly). Its tapered just like the mag is. I think it's about 3" in length. I was going to get pics and info up but I just haven't got around to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfogliofan Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 (edited) This gives your the profile of how low the bullets sit down in the mag. Tapping downward on the lips lower the position of the bullets and narrow them. This image shows how there is only room enough for one bullet to feed so double feeds aren't an issue any more additionaly the frnt of the mag prevents the nose dive for there is no room to angle down. Edited November 4, 2010 by Tanfogliofan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealio Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 Can you measure the with of the mag (on the outside) at the top and bottom of the indent that forces the rounds into single stack? From that picture that indent looks a LOT deeper than the ones in my mags, but it might be the light... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfogliofan Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 I'll check it out tonight. I'll give you dimensions at the peak of them. I'll also have some more pics to post. I just didn't have any time last night to finish. The wife was cranky after Yoga class. Got to love Yoga! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lubecktech Posted November 7, 2010 Author Share Posted November 7, 2010 (edited) I'm not going to get a Witness Match as I originally contemplated but will instead get a 9MM long slide conversion kit for my .45 Witness. It should come with 1 magazine - where is the best source for additional magazines?? Edited November 7, 2010 by Lubecktech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanfogliofan Posted November 12, 2010 Share Posted November 12, 2010 I'm not going to get a Witness Match as I originally contemplated but will instead get a 9MM long slide conversion kit for my .45 Witness. It should come with 1 magazine - where is the best source for additional magazines?? I think the best deal is through EAA corporation. If you go to their site you can order them there or get the phone number from the site and give them a call. 3 magazine for $75 isn't a bad price. You could also go through Henning to get them. I believe his prices a similar. http://www.henningshootsguns.com/ http://www.eaacorp.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whittlebeast Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 EAA claims they have the new style (just received last week) 9mm Mags. I purchased 4 based on this weeks national news. AW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pivoproseem Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Yeah, the last time I talked with them wanting "new style, rear spacer mags" they sent me old ones......good luck with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabberwalkie2 Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 They sent me the old ones also, so i called them and they told me to send them back. So i did and they called me last week and wanted my address so they could send me the new ones when they come in. I haven't seen them yet. Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Hon Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 (edited) So has anyone ever tried getting a large frame Tanfo to run CZ mags, either '75 or TS? I've never played with one, but assume they are too small (maybe among other things). Any way you might be able to re-shape the grips to hold the smaller mags? Angus once said something about making a TS (a "large frame) fit '75 mags, and that it required a Shadow mag catch and a different set of grips that were thicker and protruded into the frame more (which I just assume held them in place). Just a thought, as I'd buy a open Tanfo in a heartbeat if I could get it to run CZ mags.... Edited January 14, 2011 by J-Hon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nealio Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 So has anyone ever tried getting a large frame Tanfo to run CZ mags, either '75 or TS? I've never played with one, but assume they are too small (maybe among other things). Any way you might be able to re-shape the grips to hold the smaller mags? Angus once said something about making a TS (a "large frame) fit '75 mags, and that it required a Shadow mag catch and a different set of grips that were thicker and protruded into the frame more (which I just assume held them in place). Just a thought, as I'd buy a open Tanfo in a heartbeat if I could get it to run CZ mags.... Read this: http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=111152&st=0&p=1342811&hl=saga&fromsearch=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Hon Posted January 14, 2011 Share Posted January 14, 2011 Oh wow.... Sounds like you are already ahead of me. Keep up the good work man, excited to hear what you come up with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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