WildWest N AZ Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 So Ive been wanting to give the Clays powder a try in my 9mm? Checking around in some old threads here and not being able to find any published date for Clays and 147's, I decided to get a pound of Universal due to Hodgdon listed it under there 9mm data with 147's. On Hodgdon's website data they have 3 grains as the starting point with 3.3 being max. I will be shooting these out of a G17 and Im only looking for minor power or a bit more for cleanliness. Any insight on data will be most helpful.... Thanks WWNAZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
All-Gator Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 (edited) WWNAZ There have been several threads on the use of Clays. Most seem to think it's too fast...or unpredictable. However, I've used it for a long time without incident. My load is 3.2 grains behind a Zero 147 JHP with an OAL 0f 1.118. shooting out of a CZ85. A-G Just to make sure: This is Clays...not Universal Clays Edited October 19, 2010 by All-Gator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildWest N AZ Posted October 19, 2010 Author Share Posted October 19, 2010 Ive got Universal clays, not straight clays. Couldnt not find published data for plain Ol' clays? So i went with universal clays. Thanks WWNAZ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 follow the published data, to get close to what you want then chrono in your gun to get exact. Not much else to it, you gonna find out Universal isnt really suited for standard 9mm para , might work well in a carbine, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallisticianX Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 I dis agree that universal is not suitable for 9mm pistol loads. I think its a good choice and the performance you get will be the decided factor of how good it is. Universal is very similiar burn rate as Unique, which is a great powder for the 9mm and has been widely used for years. So if your looking for USPSA minor I would start at 3.2gr and chrono it to see if its what you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildWest N AZ Posted October 19, 2010 Author Share Posted October 19, 2010 Thanks for the help! Ive heard many good things about the clays series, nice in soft shooting, and very accurate in a variety of pistol calibers. Just finding correct clays for your application is very important due to it can get in trouble in no time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted October 19, 2010 Share Posted October 19, 2010 Universal is on the slow side of pistol powders, Shoot the rounds in low or an indoor range and you'll get a starbright muzzle flash, The round will be louder, generate more recoil, and more muzzle blast than the same round loaded with a lighter charge of a faster powder to the same power factor. You will have to look long and hard to find someone who is an experienced and knowledgeable reloader of action pistol ammo that is using Universal in a non comped autoloader. It will work but there are many other powders much better suited for the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted October 21, 2010 Share Posted October 21, 2010 I've shot several thousand rounds of 9mm 124gr (FMJ/CMJ/JHP) loaded with 4.3-4.4gr Universal. This makes minor without any trouble, is softer shooting than factory 115gr ammo (i.e. CCI Blazer), and I've not noticed any muzzle flash. Universal is kind of questionable for making minor with 147gr bullets. You just won't get enough velocity in a G17 without going beyond what Hodgdon says is max load. OTOH, WST, for which Hodgdon doesn't even publish 9mm data and dis-recommends its use in the caliber, can make minor with 147gr bullets in what seems to be generally accepted as safe limits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildWest N AZ Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 So I tried 3 grs of it to start just to see how that worked? Would not cycle my gun with the stock 17 pound spring, put a 12 pound in and ran fine. Was pleased with recoil and is much cleaner burning than the TG Ive been running. Im going to run the 3.3 to see if that charge with at least cycle the stock weight spring? If that works I think this will be a great light shooting load, but Im not going to push past the data to see if i can make it to minor. Im going to buy a few hund 124's just to see how that feels and runs for my curiosity? I know I could just use some N320 for a great 9mm minor load but Im trying to go outside of box here a bit to find something that works for minor thats cleaner than TG and a lot cheaper per pound than N320? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tac_driver Posted November 14, 2010 Share Posted November 14, 2010 So Ive been wanting to give the Clays powder a try in my 9mm? Checking around in some old threads here and not being able to find any published date for Clays and 147's, I decided to get a pound of Universal due to Hodgdon listed it under there 9mm data with 147's. On Hodgdon's website data they have 3 grains as the starting point with 3.3 being max. I will be shooting these out of a G17 and Im only looking for minor power or a bit more for cleanliness. Any insight on data will be most helpful.... Thanks WWNAZ The Lyman 49th manual has it at: Source Powder Min. Vel. MAX Vel. C.O.L. Lyman 49th Universal 3.1 778 3.5 924 1.115 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I've shot several thousand rounds of 9mm 124gr (FMJ/CMJ/JHP) loaded with 4.3-4.4gr Universal. This makes minor without any trouble, is softer shooting than factory 115gr ammo (i.e. CCI Blazer), and I've not noticed any muzzle flash. Universal is kind of questionable for making minor with 147gr bullets. You just won't get enough velocity in a G17 without going beyond what Hodgdon says is max load. OTOH, WST, for which Hodgdon doesn't even publish 9mm data and dis-recommends its use in the caliber, can make minor with 147gr bullets in what seems to be generally accepted as safe limits. Since I have some more personally collected data now, I have to amend this. In a G17, if you load on the short end, Hodgdon's published max load for 147gr jacketed bullets with Universal Clays will (at least with X-Treme 147gr plated bullets over my Chrony) just make minor PF. The difference in feel between these and the 124gr load I've been doing is at least as big as the difference in feel between factory (Blazer) 115gr and my 124gr load. I'm loading some ammo now that I'm guessing will be used for the upcoming GSSF match with the X-Treme 147s, 3.4gr Universal, and an OAL of 1.120". This is right between Hodgdon's and what I've read is Lyman's published max load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 There is BIG difference between Universal Clays and Clays - NEVER mix those two!!!! Both powders are pretty good for 9mm loads. I used both, never had issues. Both are good for 124gr bullets. Clays is - poor man's VV N320. Universal is more or less Unique. Personally, I'd not load 147gr bullets with Clays; Universal would be a better suiting powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic_jon Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 I know I could just use some N320 for a great 9mm minor load but Im trying to go outside of box here a bit to find something that works for minor thats cleaner than TG and a lot cheaper per pound than N320? I always find it funny that so many people talk about how "expensive" N320 is but when you do the math it is not all that much difference. "3.1gr of N320 cost 0.0115 3.8gr of Solo 1K cost 0.0108 1000 rounds of N320: 11.51 1000 rounds of Solo 1K : 10.84" That is a whopping 0.67 per 1000 bullets. I think I will stick with N320 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Are you saying you pay $26/lb for N320? I'd use that powder if it were that cheap. The lowest price I saw on it around where I live was $35/lb. What kinda PF, bullet and OAL are we talking about with 3.1gr charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic_jon Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Are you saying you pay $26/lb for N320? I'd use that powder if it were that cheap. The lowest price I saw on it around where I live was $35/lb. What kinda PF, bullet and OAL are we talking about with 3.1gr charge? Some of this does come down to personal preference but even if the can were $35.00 it still is not as huge a difference that a lot of people seem to think it is. I will not argue that it does cost more than some other powders but, in my opinion the benefits of it being clean burning, and more importantly *consistent* across a wide range of temperatures and lots of powder make it my powder of choice. If you look around you can find it fairly cheap. The last time I bought N320 was in a 4lb can from Natchez. They have 1lb of it for $27.49 and 4lb for $94.99. Powder valley has it for $26.00 1lb. I have used ~3.1 with 200Gr BBI's at 1.130 and 1.135 OAL and I bump it to 3.4 to for 180's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildWest N AZ Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 I know I could just use some N320 for a great 9mm minor load but Im trying to go outside of box here a bit to find something that works for minor thats cleaner than TG and a lot cheaper per pound than N320? I always find it funny that so many people talk about how "expensive" N320 is but when you do the math it is not all that much difference. "3.1gr of N320 cost 0.0115 3.8gr of Solo 1K cost 0.0108 1000 rounds of N320: 11.51 1000 rounds of Solo 1K : 10.84" That is a whopping 0.67 per 1000 bullets. I think I will stick with N320 I bought a pound of Clays for 16 + tax and when you can find 320 on shelf in AZ? Never under 30 bucks... When you buy 320 in 4 to 8 pounders only does the price come with in reason to other powders. I like Clays much better for minor very clean, I feel its a softer shooting powder than 320 and cheaper, and alot easier to find on the shelf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildWest N AZ Posted January 28, 2011 Author Share Posted January 28, 2011 I've shot several thousand rounds of 9mm 124gr (FMJ/CMJ/JHP) loaded with 4.3-4.4gr Universal. This makes minor without any trouble, is softer shooting than factory 115gr ammo (i.e. CCI Blazer), and I've not noticed any muzzle flash. Universal is kind of questionable for making minor with 147gr bullets. You just won't get enough velocity in a G17 without going beyond what Hodgdon says is max load. OTOH, WST, for which Hodgdon doesn't even publish 9mm data and dis-recommends its use in the caliber, can make minor with 147gr bullets in what seems to be generally accepted as safe limits. Since I have some more personally collected data now, I have to amend this. In a G17, if you load on the short end, Hodgdon's published max load for 147gr jacketed bullets with Universal Clays will (at least with X-Treme 147gr plated bullets over my Chrony) just make minor PF. The difference in feel between these and the 124gr load I've been doing is at least as big as the difference in feel between factory (Blazer) 115gr and my 124gr load. I'm loading some ammo now that I'm guessing will be used for the upcoming GSSF match with the X-Treme 147s, 3.4gr Universal, and an OAL of 1.120". This is right between Hodgdon's and what I've read is Lyman's published max load. So I was very close to minor w/ 147's and 3.3 of Universal then. Since then Ive tried Universal w/ 124's and was much happier with universal under 124's than under 147's. Just me i guess... LoL For 147's ill stick with dirty ol'TG for now. But also have started running plain Clays under 124's and was very pleased with how that powder has worked so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classic_jon Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 I bought a pound of Clays for 16 + tax and when you can find 320 on shelf in AZ? Never under 30 bucks... When you buy 320 in 4 to 8 pounders only does the price come with in reason to other powders. I like Clays much better for minor very clean, I feel its a softer shooting powder than 320 and cheaper, and alot easier to find on the shelf. Like I said above, some of it is personal choice. I have shot minor with Clays and N320 and I prefer N320 overall for it's total package solution. It is Clean, consistent and predictable all the time no matter what the temp. If your preference is Clays, then by all means use it. That is why there are 352 and 1/2 types of powders and several manufaturers. You also make a good point: Some of this also comes down to if you order in bulk or buy off the shelf. I pretty much stopped buying off the shelf except for a very few things that I need right then. Most of the time I order my bullets, primers and powder in bulk online to save lots of $$. :-) I did however find a great deal on CCI Small Rifle Primers at Cabellas a week ago and bought a couple thousand. $19.99 a thousand was too hard to pass up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 BTW, I found out last night that with the 3.4gr Universal load, a double charge will fit in the case...but it'd be one hell of a compressed load. I had a spent primer fall in the way of the primer slide, and just keep it from going all the way forward. While clearing that, I pulled the handle all the way down. After dealing with it and priming the case in station one, I noticed the case in station two was a few mm from overflowing with powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gm iprod Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Good save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njl Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Good save. Yeah...it was one of those "duh!" moments. For some reason, it didn't occur to my while clearing the jam that I was double charging a case...but as soon as I was done clearing things and assessed the machine, I was like "wow...I double charged that case, and it fit!". I wonder how bad the damage would have been from 6.8gr of Universal under a 147gr bullet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SrLoader Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Doesn’t anyone READ the question? Looking for Universal powder load for Xtreme 124 RN copper plated bullets. Please be precise. There are to many tangent remarks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Please be patient. The thread you revived is almost 10 years old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBomber Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) 4.8-5.0 should put you in the right ballpark. I use 5.0 with a 124 FMJ at OAL of 1.165. I load 9 major at that length, so I just load my minor stuff at that length as well. Runs 100% and makes around 130 PF. Edited February 9, 2020 by MadBomber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBomber Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Check my last post! I use 4.5 grains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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