Target Engagement Order

[Ron Ankeny]

First off, I think this forum is without a doubt the most professionally run board on the Web today. I really appreciate the input I am getting from you guys, and I am trying your suggestions and applying what I learn here. It is kind of like having the best coaches in the world no further away than the mouse and keyboard.

I have been using my timer extensively in practice and I have identified several areas that need improvement. My weakest areas are moving into and out of shooting positions, and target transitions. It will take some effort to improve and I will need a lot more match experience before I have a really clear picture of what I need to do. In the mean time, I need to try various approaches to my shooting and I am hoping (fingers crossed) that all of you will offer some suggestions.

I am wondering, when the buzzer sounds, should I shoot the close target first because I can get on it the quickest, or do I shoot it last because I can transition to it quickly and I don't need to follow through or call the shot? Also, when entering into a box, do I shoot the nearest target first because I can hit it before I settle in, or do I leave it for last because I can swat it as I exit. I also wonder, should a guy try to shoot targets on the move, or should I get into a comfortable stance and gun then run. I know I will eventually have to answer all of these questions on my own, but I hope you might offer some general guidelines. Take the following stage for example:

In this stage targets 3 and 16 are 8 inch plates that are not visible until the poppers in front of them are down. I have numbered the targets in the order I would shoot them. Also, I think I would try to shoot the poppers in the center array while on the move so long as the no shoot wasn't lined up with the center two poppers. What do you guys think? Is the strategy sound or do you have another suggestion? What order would you shoot them in and most importantly...why?

If you think these types of questions are worthwhile to other members, I will post another stage later on. Thanks.

(Edited by Ron Ankeny at 8:51 pm on May 17, 2001)

[Phil Dunlop]

Ron,

what range are the targets and what if anything has to be shot from box C.

I'm not a GM (yet), but for what its worth, I would most likely shoot the first bank of targets 5,4,1,2,3,depending on how slow the popper falls, and accepting that departing on the plate could be risky.

P.D.

[38supPat]

O.k. my order would be 2 3 1 4 5, on first bank Left to right is comfortable for me. since distances are not listed the far target #2 offers about as difficult a shot as partial #5 And I'd like to leave on a close one like that, I wouldn't leave on a plate. you'd have to watch it fall to be sure before leaving, penalties suck!

Depending on angles I'd likely shoot middle left to right to  7 8 9 6 10 11 Entering last box I would shoot 12 13 14 16 15. Enter on close and work out.

Pat

[PaulW]

Wow interesting stage......

I would shoot it as follows:

Box A: 5,4,1,2,3  (follow through on the plate)

Step out and shoot 7,8,6,10,11,9  (might take some small steps towards Box B as I engaged the open poppers, but stop for the small ones with the no-shoot behind them.)  Also by stepping out of Box A and engaging them your heart rate isn't as high (as if you were to run over and stop just before Box

Box B: 15,14,13,12,16 (follow through on the plate)

This order may change if I knew the distances of the targets.  Don't usually like to leave a Box on steel, but sometimes you hafta!

[PaulW]

opps...my Box B should be Box C.

[Ron Ankeny]

Phil:

The array on the left must be shot from Box B. The steel is at 10 for the close ones and the longest shot is about 14 yards.  I shot this stage at a small match last summer and really tanked it bad :-)

Pat:

I agree with your order, but there is a little wrinkle or two that I didn't make clear. The 8 inch plates (3 and 16) are behind poppers 1 and 14 and they are not visible until the poppers are down. Likewise, the small popper (9) is directly behind 6.

(Edited by Ron Ankeny at 8:55 am on May 18, 2001)

[ErikW]

1, 2, 3, 4; 5 while leaving box; 6, 9 from just outside box; 7, 8, 10, 11 while on the move; 12 while entering box; 13, 14, 15, 16

Why? I don't like to draw to US Poppers but I will because I like to shoot bottom-up and they are always low. I'll take the nearby paper while it falls and come back to the plate.

Ideally, I'd shoot the entire middle array on the move. However, as Clint says, "A man's got to know his limitations," and I miss USPs and Plates too frequently on the move with iron sights, so I'll get them from a more stable position. That no-shoot behind a USP confirms that plan. But the bigger poppers will be taken on the move.

Going into the second box, I'll get 12 first because I don't have to be stopped in a stable position to get a big close target.

[benos]

Without getting too wraped up in target orders, because it soooo conditional, IN GENERAL, I use the following guidelines: try to leave on the easiest target (not steel if possible), and enter on an easy/comfortable target.

I've found, through a huge amount of experimenting, that you can "make up" twice the time leaving a box as you can entering one.

be

[38supPat]

The only thing I can add at this point has more to do with brain fade. I was working out a practice stage much like this one day and I decided to use a funky pattern because I thought it was most efficient. But time after time I'd blow it and lose the order. My eyes were telling me to shoot it one way and my brain wanted to do the plan. It got frustrating as I was practicing with a shooter I normally beat and I couldn't catch him. So finally I gave in and just shot the way my eyes and body were telling me to do it. I never blew a run after that and smoked his butt. So the moral here is sometimes you gotta go with the simple answer. A cool plan may be screamin' fast but if you can't keep it in your head it won't matter. Think simple, do simple. Then again sometimes we just think too damn much and we should just shut up and shoot...lol

Pat

[Phil Dunlop]

Ron,

out of curiosity, did you see the stage winner shoot, and what order did he/she engage?

[Ron Ankeny]

Phil:

The stage winner shot it in the order that I listed, but he is a Master and the next best shooter is in B class. He could have thrown rocks. I like Brian's advice, and believe it or not, I have not seen the issue of leaving a box on the easiest target addressed in any of the training materials that I have.

I am setting two stages up at our club match Sunday and I think I'll include this one. I'll see how the stage winner does it.

[Phil Dunlop]

Ron, sounds like a good idea, let us know how it is shot.

P.D.

[Duane Thomas]

Pat,

"So the moral here is sometimes you gotta go with the simple answer."

Occam's Razor, right? So-called because it's a wonderful tool for cutting through the bullshit, i.e. the understanding that the most likely answer to a problem will be the simplest one that explains all the facts. So, if you're looking to solve a problem or explain a phenomenon, FIRST you should examine, and then either accept or discard, the most obvious explanation before moving to more complicated/obscure explanations. It saves an immense amount of time, because after you check out the simplest answer first, after that, in all probability, you won't have to go any further.

[38supPat]

Thats what its called! Thanks dude! I've been trying to remember that name. Occam's Razor, cool, I heard it first on 'The Simpsons' That Lisa is one sharp chick...lol

Pat

[Ron Ankeny]

Just got back from the match and the point is moot. We had a 30-40 mph from directly behind the poppers so we just kind of shot for fun. I shot 18 rounds to down the six poppers in the middle with no misses, lol. A friend of mine did a Bill Drill on one of the poppers with his .45 and he hit it four or five times out of six. We were all amused as the popper rocked back and forth only to settle in an upright position. Maybe next time...