Detlef Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 will anyone guess whether *stacking* is allowed on stage 20 "5 sec Standards" of the upcoming Limited Nationals? --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 I think they will have to rewrite the stage description to disallow stacking. (Waitaminnit, didn't Amidon declare no stacking unless specifically allowed in course description?) Fixed time has the US9.4.4.1 restriction on extra shots fired, but the description specifies 1 shot or 2 shots each target, not only 1 or only 2. If I fire 6 shots at a target, I have met the description. However, if I fire all 6 at one target and ignore the other two, I've failed to engage them. But as Kathy says, "I engaged them, I just missed and hit the other target." How do you RO enagement at 40 yards when there is only a few minutes of angle of muzzle movement between targets? We shot this at Richmond's Open match last Sunday, where they specified no stacking. I didn't have much trouble making accurate shots under par, except when my foo-foo gun jammed. Top two guys (M & A class) got like 106 and 103 points and I (A Open) was third with 84. (I lost 15 because I couldn't get the 3 shots in after the jam.) I practiced it with my Limited gun the following day. I couldn't beat par on the 40 yard string on the first try, so I had to increase my speed to about .59 splits. (Of course, you can stretch the splits if your draw is faster than my 1.90+.) The 30 yard reload string was a bit tight. The 20 yard reload string was perfect, and I had plenty of time on the close weak-hand string. I think it's par timed perfectly, so a second-rate M can just barely get all the shots in and it will come down to who's the most accurate among the big dog GMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 I hated that course! However, I was able to get off 10 shots weak hand which added 4 extra A's for my score. I'm not sure whether that was "legal" or not, but I received no penalties for it. For those of you shooting this that aren't Masters - most of the B and C class shooters did not get any shots off from the 2nd position after the reload (myself included!) I was able to get off all the shots on the other strings, but did not hit the target at 40 yds (heck I can't even see that far!) Erik - thanks for quoting me - makes me feel like I might actually know something - LOL! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 Shooter Grrl, FWIW - No, the 4 extra A's weren't legal. You should have been assessed extra shot (and possibly extra hit) penalties. Being a C class shooter, I don't even think I'm going to try for the reload on the 2nd string. I'll probably just try to shoot 3 solid A's. It depends on how comfortable I am after the 1st string. I figure the weak hand string is the only one where I will get all my shots off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 Post deleted. You guys missed a dandy if you didn't see it, lol. (Edited by Ron Ankeny at 12:12 pm on Sep. 7, 2001) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 Why were they illegal? I can't figure it out :-) It's not Virgina Count - so why can't I make up misses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted September 7, 2001 Author Share Posted September 7, 2001 usually on thise long distances they allow stacking. What does Carl say about it? Assuming it's allowed, the toughest one for me was the 20 y string. Erik is right, a 2nd rate M (like me) can just barely get all shots off and on paper in par time. --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 Shooter Grrl, Now you're making me look up the rules in the rule book. Shame on you! Per the 14th Edition 2001 Rulebook: US 9.2.2.4 - States "Fixed number of rounds". US 9.4.4.1 through US 9.4.4.3 deal with the penalties. Think of "Fixed Time" as "Virginia Count" with a set time and no miss penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 Storm, Now you're going to make me as Amidon about this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Bagoly Posted September 7, 2001 Share Posted September 7, 2001 The stage description says audible start/stop. This is going to be at PASA, what is the chance that they will change to turning targets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted September 8, 2001 Share Posted September 8, 2001 FWIW - No, the 4 extra A's weren't legal. You should have been assessed extra shot (and possibly extra hit) penalties. Well I fired off an email to Mr. Amidon and here's his reponse.... ********************************************* Rule US 9.4.4 states In a Virginia Count or Fixed Time course of fire. US 9.4.4.1 States extra shots ( more than the number specified) shall constitute a procedural penalty for each extra shot, etc. Based on this, even though VC and time fire are different in the time allowed, the scoring and penalties are the same, except in VC misses count and in time fire they don't. John ********************************************* Drats :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted September 10, 2001 Author Share Posted September 10, 2001 I'm hoping for turning targets, too. Stopping when hearing the beep is not my preference... Another question: Going prone on the 40 y string slows me down on the 1st shot about 1 sec. But the actual shooting is much better and faster. An option? 5 sec total is not very much.... --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 You guys have course descriptions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 Detlef, Someone else brought up going prone in another thread and most decided it wasn't worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 Patrick, Yeah, they're on the web. http://www.uspsa.org/cgi-bin/match_index.c...mited_Nationals http://www.uspsa.org/cgi-bin/match_index.c..._Open_Nationals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBChaffin Posted September 10, 2001 Share Posted September 10, 2001 So will some try to "stack" on Stage 6, "Reload Standards"? To me it sounds clear enough that each target must be engaged with one round (and anything else would be a penalty if done before the reload), but it is Comstock and I thought the "5 Second Standards" was clear as well. Anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted September 10, 2001 Author Share Posted September 10, 2001 Kath, in all generality *it's not worth* certainly does not apply. Already if that time limit was 6 sec I would *definitely* go prone, for me the hits are just *so* much better and easier. But my first hit prone at 40-50 y takes me 3-3.5 sec because I don't practice it very often (with a bit of practice 2.5 sec seems rather easy to accomplish). Leaves me only another 2.3 sec to get all shots off (0.46 splits), and that's what worries me. --Detlef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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