Filishooter Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 I'm all for it. The top dogs aren't really competing with Masters (like me) who barley shoots to the MA classifier time, they are competing with each other. Someday I hope to be there, but I'm being realistic. IIRC Ben Stoeger recently shot a 59 second classifier, so maybe set the GM time around there? If a MA wins MA class and beats a percentage of GM shooters, then I'd say maybe he belongs in that class, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor_R Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 How about the only way to make GM is if you beat 10 Masters at Nationals and only at National will they recognize a GM bump. No classifier for GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 How about the only way to make GM is if you beat 10 Masters at Nationals and only at National will they recognize a GM bump. No classifier for GM. Guess Jerry will never make it, then.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SauconValley Shooter Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 How about the only way to make GM is if you beat 10 Masters at Nationals and only at National will they recognize a GM bump. No classifier for GM. Guess Jerry will never make it, then.... Good Afternoon, Well, for Jerry, I will try real hard to make master and then round up all of the ESR masters of whom I know to shoot Nationals with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueOvalBruin Posted October 11, 2010 Share Posted October 11, 2010 How about the top 10% of the master class at nationals gets bumped to GM. Only at nationals can you get bumped. Can't make it to nationals? Too bad. If you want to keep out the outliers, make someone finish in the top 10% at nationals at least twice before getting bumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahab Posted October 18, 2010 Share Posted October 18, 2010 Honestly, I think that Bruin's suggestion would make sense, with the addition that you have to be able to shoot a GM-level classifier match, then finish in the top 10% at either Indoor Nationals or Nationals in Tulsa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benoit Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 While I really don't dislike the idea of a GM class I still don't know what problem it is supposed to solve. I have won DC as an Expert and as a Master at regional matches and have been in the top 1.5% overall at state matches but I am not sure if I could shoot a 65-70 second classifier (haven't shot one in a while though so maybe....). Does that mean I can't compete with Masters or does that just mean that I need some more work so I can compete with 4 or 5 guys like Sevigny and Vogel? When you won was Bob or Dave or anybody else that is a USPSA GM? Not comparing the 2 but don't know how to say it any other way. I really don't care either, I shoot the best I can and let it fall where it may. I can't shoot a 70 second classifier either. you will not need to shoot a 65-70 second classifier (unless you are only considering time, not points down). Based on the cutoff scores from the other ranks, the cutoffs for Grandmaster will be as follow if IDPA stays mathematically consistent. CDP: 78.00 ESP: 76.00 SSP: 84.00 ESR: 86.00 SSR: 87.00 Benoit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GForceLizard Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 http://pistol-training.com/archives/3762 I have no problem lumping all the CDP, ESP & SSP guns together for IDPA GM. I don't see this going over big at IDPA HQ. You need to separate the revolvers from the semi-auto pistols, IMHO. If the revolver shooters want an IDPA GM they will need to attract more shooters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 That sure is an interesting way of looking at it but you will still end up where we are now. Once all the guys that some want out of MA class (Sevigny, Vogel,l etc...) then that just leaves the others MA's to start getting bumped to GM. Sure there are those that would be celebrating their new found ability to compete at the MA level but that will only last for a few years and then they are up against the GM's again. Also that doesn't take into account the guys people want out of MA class not shooting at matches that don't have 10+ shooters. You then run into the problem of the bumped EX's now getting stuck against the top level MA's that can't beat the top 1% of shooters but they now rule the MA class. It is a never ending loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 How about just handing out blue ribbons to everyone when they sign up? If you are only a lowly master and don't put in the work the better masters do, then people should feel sorry for you, boo hoo, go practice or stop whining. The deep end of the pool is very deep and if you are in that end of the pool why do you even care about the class system? Be a winner not a whiner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strick Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 How about just handing out blue ribbons to everyone when they sign up? If you are only a lowly master and don't put in the work the better masters do, then people should feel sorry for you, boo hoo, go practice or stop whining. The deep end of the pool is very deep and if you are in that end of the pool why do you even care about the class system? Be a winner not a whiner. :D Sounds about right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahab Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I just made 5-gun master this year. I'm really proud of the hard work that I put in to making that, especially my CDP classification. That being said, I'd get destroyed by Dave or Ben if I shot SSP at a major match, just like I'd get destroyed by Jerry if I shot ESR against him. I'm okay with that. If IDPA wants to create a GM class, it doesn't change my shooting journey one whit. I'm still going to matches trying to shoot to the best of my ability and beat as many people as I possibly can, regardless of whether it says "MA" or "GM" on my card. I think way too many people are hung up on who's going to win this and that, when all that really matters is if you can shoot to the best of your skill every match. If I get outshot by Dave Sevigny or Phil Strader at Nats, I'm not going to shed any tears as long as I shot the best match I could shoot and didn't finish dead last in ESP Master. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ted Murphy Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Well as someone who got his ESP and SSP MA card this year, I guess I finally have a dog in this hunt. I really do not feel a personal need for a GM class, I really don't mind shooting against the Jedi in the sport. I do know other shooters see things differently, so if it makes them happy I say go for it. But if they do go with a GM class I do think it should be by classifier score and/or a very strict criteria pertaining to major match performance. If you just do a bump to GM the way the bumps to the other classes go, the field will be packed again in a few years. Best part of making Ma is not having to shoot the classifier again. If they go to a GM, I guess I'l be blowing 90 rounds a year again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Best part of making Ma is not having to shoot the classifier again. If they go to a GM, I guess I'l be blowing 90 rounds a year again. Damn that would be one part that would suck. One of the best benefits of making Master is this! I'll compete against Sevigny and Vogel or whoever... just don't make me classify in 3-4 division/year! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Best part of making Ma is not having to shoot the classifier again. If they go to a GM, I guess I'l be blowing 90 rounds a year again. Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefcs5 Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 I dont mind a GM class I think its a good idea. actually I see the need to overhaul all the classes for idpa as they sit now. I know a lot of C/B uspsa guys who are very good at thier current level but who are all MA in idpa so those guys who are shooting C/B in uspsa against guys who also shoot C/B are now shooting against Vogel in the same class. I think a GM class would help that some what. Maybe also more than 1 classifier Since If I really really practice the Classifier I can shoot MA also but I dont practice at all so I stay in the class where I would actually be competitive. but thats another thread.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benoit Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 While I really don't dislike the idea of a GM class I still don't know what problem it is supposed to solve. I have won DC as an Expert and as a Master at regional matches and have been in the top 1.5% overall at state matches but I am not sure if I could shoot a 65-70 second classifier (haven't shot one in a while though so maybe....). Does that mean I can't compete with Masters or does that just mean that I need some more work so I can compete with 4 or 5 guys like Sevigny and Vogel? When you won was Bob or Dave or anybody else that is a USPSA GM? Not comparing the 2 but don't know how to say it any other way. I really don't care either, I shoot the best I can and let it fall where it may. I can't shoot a 70 second classifier either. you will not need to shoot a 65-70 second classifier (unless you are only considering time, not points down). Based on the cutoff scores from the other ranks, the cutoffs for Grandmaster will be as follow if IDPA stays mathematically consistent. CDP: 78.00 ESP: 76.00 SSP: 84.00 ESR: 86.00 SSR: 87.00 Benoit actually this turns out to be wrong. These derived values are actually the values of the min times that were used to get up the cutoffs in the IDPA classifier, and will not likely be the GM cutoffs. Benoit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 I personally don't care one way or another I compete to win, not my class but the match. Yep, me too, bout says it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvb Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 has their been any "official" movement on this? I looked in the addendum today and there is nothing new there. -rvb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr7070 Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) I've just read through this thread. Most of it has focused on GM potentially being a desire of the mid-level or lower MA shooters. I find it interesting that no post mentioned the possibility that this idea might be coming from IDPA HQ because it might benefit IDPA (which is fine), and have little or nothing to do with the MA shooters that have been mentioned heavily in this thread. I don't know Dave or JM or any of the other top MA shooters mentioned and the following isn't meant to denigrate any of these fine shooters. It's also possible that the elite level MA shooters want the GM class more than anyone else. Maybe some of them want the added distinction for their own reasons. Personally, if they're going to monkey with classifications I'd like to see them revamp it completely and adjust the times of all classes using some objective analysis. I doubt the large gap between SSP and ESP/CDP is realistic. I also doubt that the time percentage difference between all the classes should be the same across divisions - in other words the distribution of each class is likely not linear within each division. If adding another class is a part of any revision, meh. Edited February 11, 2011 by gr7070 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z Sr Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 (edited) Since it costs $50.00 to get a piece of paper stating you've made 5 gun master ( my opinion, any shooter that makes that level should be thanked for all he/she has done for the sport), even though you have probably been an IDPA member for ahwile and shot many matches with 5 different guns, maybe the powers that be figure the paper stating your achievments to GM is worth $100.00- $200.00 dollars? Just my take on it. My $50.00 bucks goes to Midway or Natchez for primers. Edited February 11, 2011 by John Z Sr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ahab Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 In a humorous side note, IDPA cashed my $50.00 check back in December and I still don't have my silly piece of paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeHeadedDog Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 I agree with whoever above who said something about just giving participation awards. I have said it before and will say it again. If you are a master and take something like 15th MA at a match when you add a GM class you will still take 15th at the match. If your self esteem is such that you cant handle that truth than find something more cuddly to do that doesnt have a scoring system. If it were up to me I would just lower the prices of all the events and only give out a trophy for 1st SSP, 1st ESP, ect. That way you dont have to pony up the $$$ for the extra awards. Our culture has for some odd reason has gone completely fluffy. Americans used to pride ourselves on greatness now we have friggin graduation celebrations for kindergardner. We used to celebrate results in the name of hard work and accomplishment, now we praise mediocrity in the name of feelings and fairness. Sorry I could go on my soapbox for another 10 pages but I will step down and go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.W. Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 As someone who has only been shooting this game for a few months, here's my opinion (fwiw) - I classified expert last week - my goal is to classify Master next year - mostly so I don't have to shoot the classifier again. I have to drive 2 1/2 hours one way (5 hours total) just to attend the club's monthly match. Wasting that time on a classifier so I can shoot in a regional is a big deal to me. I compare my scores to everybody regardless of division anyway. I really don't care about GM, as long as my reward for making Master remains not having to shoot the classifier again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 As someone who has only been shooting this game for a few months, here's my opinion (fwiw) - I classified expert last week - my goal is to classify Master next year - mostly so I don't have to shoot the classifier again. I have to drive 2 1/2 hours one way (5 hours total) just to attend the club's monthly match. Wasting that time on a classifier so I can shoot in a regional is a big deal to me. I compare my scores to everybody regardless of division anyway. I really don't care about GM, as long as my reward for making Master remains not having to shoot the classifier again. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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