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Hammer Half-Cock - Beating this topic to a pulp...


eastonx7

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Hello Everyone!

In shooting a local match, my friend came across a particular RO who didn't like the idea of the hammer going into half-cock after the, "if clear, hammer down..." command was issued.

This post comes in two parts.

1) how many of you have had the hammer go into half-cock during a match; and, do you just lower the hammer by hand afterwards?

2) are there modifications I may perhaps be missing that could help alleviate this side effect? I have lowered the half-cock notch to an appropriate height to ensure clearance; however rebounds to half-cock seem to happen every now and again. No issues with light strikes, nor sear/half-cock notch rub. This also happens with my wife's open pistol.

Any thoughts?

Thank you.

:)

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If I remember correctly, this is after installing the the EGW sear and EGW hammer, correct?

I thought I posted a reply at that time I had a theory that the portion of the hammer that is touching the end of the trigger bar maybe providing just enough assisting leverage to make the hammer bounce back far enough into half cock after it impacts the firing pin and firing pin stop. On my gun, I filed a 30 degree angle at that rub point on the trigger bar and polished it, and then filed a mirror angle on the hammer. I only took a little bit of material off the trigger bar, but a lot from the hammer.

Edited by Skydiver
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If I remember correctly, this is after installing the the EGW sear and EGW hammer, correct?

I thought I posted a reply at that time I had a theory that the portion of the hammer that is touching the end of the trigger bar maybe providing just enough assisting leverage to make the hammer bounce back far enough into half cock after it impacts the firing pin and firing pin stop. On my gun, I filed a 30 degree angle at that rub point on the trigger bar and polished it, and then filed a mirror angle on the hammer. I only took a little bit of material off the trigger bar, but a lot from the hammer.

Hi Skydiver!

Thank you very much for your reply. Yes, this issue came up after I installed the EGW Sear and Hammer.

You're right! I did read your post, but I have a somewhat difficult time visualizing the modification. I'm wondering, would you be able to share a picture of the two areas that you have modified?

Thank you.

:)

Edited by eastonx7
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I would definately recommend that you keep the half cock notch on your hammer. I removed mine completely because I could never seem to get my sear to clear the notch. Lets just say that I found out the hard way to never remove the half cock completely. RO's tend to frown when your pistol decides that it wants to start doubling and trippling. It was cool for about two seconds until the RO DQ'd me. Then not so much.

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If I remember correctly, this is after installing the the EGW sear and EGW hammer, correct?

I thought I posted a reply at that time I had a theory that the portion of the hammer that is touching the end of the trigger bar maybe providing just enough assisting leverage to make the hammer bounce back far enough into half cock after it impacts the firing pin and firing pin stop. On my gun, I filed a 30 degree angle at that rub point on the trigger bar and polished it, and then filed a mirror angle on the hammer. I only took a little bit of material off the trigger bar, but a lot from the hammer.

So, I took some time this evening to look into the theory that Skydiver had above.

Interestingly enough, after comparing the effect the factory hammer had on the trigger bar vs the EGW hammer, I noticed there was a slight variation in the trigger bar's position - the EGW hammer lowered the trigger bar's position about 0.045". Because its position is lower and the fact that the hammer pushes the trigger bar down, disconnect would happen if the underside of the hammer hits the trigger bar hard enough. Allowing the rebound to happen - the sear will catch the half-cock because disconnect happens. I noticed that when I rack the slide and activate the trigger, but catch the hammer before it falls, and lower it manually, I can feel the hammer touch the trigger bar ever so slightly. As I keep the trigger back and let the hammer fall by letting it go from its cocked position, no disconnect happens.

All this said, I think Skydiver has it right. By carving the same curvature under the EGW hammer - as the factory hammer - it should reduce, if not eliminate the contact it has with the trigger bar. Allowing the trigger bar to keep contact with the sear and to allow clearance for the hammer half-cock. Disconnect will happen properly when the slide comes back and drops the trigger bar via the disconnect groves on the slide.

I didn't have the opportunity to make the modifications yet, but I hope to try tomorrow. I haven't decided what the best way is; my gut says mod the hammer, it's what the factory hammer's geometry tells me to do; I suppost we could also take the material off the trigger bar, but it's not what my gut tells me to do.

I'll report my findings when I'm done.

:)

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I would definately recommend that you keep the half cock notch on your hammer. I removed mine completely because I could never seem to get my sear to clear the notch. Lets just say that I found out the hard way to never remove the half cock completely. RO's tend to frown when your pistol decides that it wants to start doubling and trippling. It was cool for about two seconds until the RO DQ'd me. Then not so much.

I'm with you 100% Tanfogliocoe, I don't feel comfortable removing the half-cock notch because I made the mods and it's not my gun, it's my wife's. The last thing I want is for her to have a pistol that goes full auto and lose control as it keeps going.

I think Skydiver has a very good theory. I'm gonna follow the curvature of the underside of the factory hammer and implement it on the EGW hammer. The modification should allow the sear and trigger bar to keep connected as the hammer falls. With no cartridge in the chambre to activate the slide, the sear should stay up, allowing clearance for the hammer to strike the firing pin and settle into "hammer down" position. Since disconnect will happen when the slide comes back (when a round is fired), the sear is free to engage the hammer hooks and keep the hammer back. When the operator resets the trigger the trigger bar plunger should reengage the trigger bar and sear relationship as per its design.

Wish me luck!

:)

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Although the trigger bar is cheaper than the hammer, taking material off the hammer makes more sense because there's a lot more leeway with the amount of metal on that piece.

As I recall, the reason why I'd started off taking material from the trigger bar was that mine was poorly cast/finished and it had a rough surface rubbing against the hammer. Your analysis of making enough clearance with the hammer makes more sense and is much easier. Additionally, since your wife's gun is a Limited, as compared to my Match, taking the hammer in and out is much simpler, so you can do the test fitting quicker.

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Good evening Everyone!

I'm happy to report, we no longer have to shave off our half-cock notches!

Skydiver had the right path!

Here's what I did:

  1. Removed the slide, ambi-safety, and sear cage. This enabled me to see how the EGW Hammer engaged the trigger bar.
  2. By physically moving the hammer to 90 degrees, you should see that the trigger bar ramps come down to almost the bottom edge of the inner rail. The idea is to have the hammer come to 90 degrees - like it is going to hit the firing pin - and have minimal movement (if possible, have no movement) to the trigger bar.
  3. Now that we know where the trigger bar needs to be, we take the hammer out and carve out material from the underside of it. What I did as a guideline was take the factory hammer and trace out the shape on the excess material of the EGW hammer. In fact, what I traced on the EGW hammer was the only material I needed to carve out.
  4. Without the hammer spring, I fit tested the hammer to trigger bar engagement, when I brought the hammer to 90 degrees, the trigger bar barely moved.
  5. I polished the surfaces that I carved out to a mirror finish.
  6. Cleaned up all the surfaces with a ceramic stone - because when I used my Dremel, some rough edges were left.
  7. Put the pistol back together and...presto! No more hammer bounce back!

If everything is done to plan, the hammer should fall as it should and the trigger bar to sear connection should remain. Which means, you should be able to reset the trigger, pull it back again, and freely bring the hammer back without the sear catching on the hooks or half-cock notch.

The only time the disconnect happens is when the slide comes back and engages the disconnect ramps on the trigger bar.

Yeah! We did it!

:)

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Good morning Everyone!

I was able to fit another EGW Hammer to a Limited Custom II; I thought to share a picture of the material I carved off with a Dremel before the work was done.

Hope this helps,

:)

I had a request come through to share what the modified hammer looks like; I had my wife's gun apart to clean it this evening; so I thought to share a couple of perspectives.

I hope this clears things up a little further!

:)

post-23533-052562500 1289460534_thumb.jp

post-23533-000560900 1289460548_thumb.jp

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  • 1 year later...

bringing back an old thread here. Just went through the same problem on my open gun. Newly installed EGW hammer did not have that small relief cut in it, as shown above. I put in my orig. WCPI hammer that has that cut, no-more rebounding to the half-cock position. Although I have a question. Wonder why EGW would make their hammer without the relief cut as shown above??

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It definitely is a nuisance.

I grinded mine (both of them) like eastonx7 showed above and they work perfectly now. But until I saw this thread I was pretty confused.

As to Why? Maybe send egw an email?

Edited by spideysteve
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As to Why? Maybe send egw an email?

I plan on it, or calling them as well, Just haven't yet. It would be interesting if Henning has any insight on this? Henning?

One thought I did have was "maybe" EGW manufactures them with the intention that they are "properly fitted" to the individuals gun, and taking that little bit off might be part of the fitting??

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Undercutting the base of the hammer like that changes the timing of when the trigger bar disengages the sear allowing the sear to snap down and catch the half cock at the correct time. Why does EGW not cut this deeper? Because their hammer and sear are purposefully made with extra "Meat" on them so you can cut the parts back to whatever depth you need to make them work on any gun. The EGW Sear and Hammer are not "Drop In" parts. You need to modify and fit both so they function properly in your pistol.

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  • 7 months later...

Does anyone have a trick for re-installing the sear spring?!?!?! I spent 3 hours before I got it back in using every armorers trick I know. The gun almost got pitched out the window more than once!

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I run a small punch in from the opposite side of where I'm pushing the pin in from. Also I think you have to put the spring under tension or that tiny leg slips off the sear. Its a huge PITA so I try to never take a sear cage apart.. :)

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