Jump to content
Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

don't shoot club matches?


ErikW

Recommended Posts

Assuming a goal of doing well at big matches, is it helpful or hurtful to shoot local club matches? Why or why not? Might it put an artificial ceiling on one's ability? I mean, could one get in the habit of just doing well enough to beat the top local competitors, a few A and M shooters, and then find that performance level isn't going to cut it against a bunch of Ms and GMs at a big match? I think Voigt and Barnhart don't shoot club matches, but I see Travis and Matt mentioning they do, and they're all top national shooters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Erik,

It's totally a personality issue. I've spoken to quite a few shooters on this issue, and each answers according to his personal tendencies. Some guys prefer to "save it up" for the big one - feeling they will be hungrier and sharper. Others shoot the local matches as more of a "training excercise," emphasizing different focal points to "experiment with in competition." Others, who just love to shoot, and don't necessarily connect what they do today with what they MIGHT do tomorrow, just shoot everything they can. Study yourself, experiment, and see what works for you.

be

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Come to Rio Salado, I get beat by those guys every weekend!!!!!  and every Tuesday night!!!  That is the great thing about Rio, if you can win there, you can win anywhere.  (but the record should reflect that I beat Rob in a local match a couple of months ago:  Kelly 1, Robbie 500,000)

I think shooting local matches is always good practice.  Practice can never quite approximate competition.  I've shot some other local matches throughout AZ and I've learned something at each one regardless of the level of competition.

Plus, going to local matches is what serves as the basis of the sport.  How could USPSA/IPSC exist if all the best shooters avoided local matches??  They provide inspiration and serve as a model for everyone else.  They also pull everyone else's skill level up as everyone tries to catch them. If all the best shooters hid away, the sport would surely suffer.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

I don't have any really local clubs, all are about 2 hours drive for me, one USPSA club that is about 2.5 hours has 2 GM's and a few M's that makes for great competition!  i still haven't beat one, and after last weekend doubt i ever will! but i will probabally keep trying.

i shoot at an IDPA club that has quite a few masters, shooting with higher skill level shooters is definitley a motivator. i will continue to shoot some club matches even when/if i do get good,because its a place to try something new, a major match is not a place to run a gun or technique you haven't thouroughly tested, i HAVE learned that much.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As one who is working his way up through the ranks I can tell you that I would be lost without guys to push and pull me along. Unfortunately, there are only a couple of Masters in the entire area, but I never miss an opportunity to learn from those guys.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know that when I took Todd's class, it changed the way I look at the local matches and major matches. Todd told us he was no longer going to shoot local matches as much as he did, but he would still shoot some of them.

After a hot summer day of shooting in Florida, I finally realized what he was saying. I shoot several matches a month, but do not shoot all of them. I replace that with shooting practice sessions instead. I shoot approximately 3-4 matches a month, but also shoot live fire practice 4-5 times a month and dry fire 5 days a week.

I do need to shoot the local matches though, because when I step away from them for a while, I find that my movement, some live fire skills, and other things aren't quite as sharp when I go back to shooting them. I also like shooting live fire practice though. There are things I can do and re-do in practice that you just can't do in matches. I can't try things and re-do them in matches like I can in practice and really get some good work in. Plus, as long as you really concentrate and pay attention, and WATCH or SEE what is happening, the more you do, I think the better and used to it you are.

For a match, you are there for 5 hours or so and shoot around 100 rounds. If I shoot in practice, I can shoot for 2 hours and shoot 200-300 rounds. I think it is beneficial to shoot both.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FWIW...

This is a personal decision, based upon your position on your "I'm happy" curve.  AT our clubs we get the big eastern Canadians out for the L1s and higher.  Mike Auger and others still come out for the Club level.  There is a learning opportunity through observing other shooters, imho of any level.

Even if you have achieved a skill level where the Club match doesn't really challenge you, it is a course designed on someone else's time that you could use as a place to play "outside your box", you can try new stuff.  

I just spent the weekend assisting on an IPSC course (the Black Badge course its called in Canada - you need to pass the course to be a full member of IPSC Canada - it's different in different places)  At the end of the two day program, we set up a quick 20 round course for the new grads, just to build a bit of confidence and to help them pull together their new basic skills.  All the students were looking forward to running this very simple course.  They also wanted all the instructors to run it, and then to break the thing down.  I was very pleased to hear people say "wow I saw what you did there, that looked great, why did you do it that way?"

Sometimes we all need to be recharged.  If I watch Pat or Auger float through a stage, it charges me up to try harder and improve my own standards.  If the only thing shooting local club matches did was encourage new shooters, it's worth it.

Personal opinion of course.

Ross

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know Travis, it seems you've got your hands full here in the NW when shooting against Young Lee and Tom Stidham.

I thought we had a good cadre of shooters here.  

So we don't measure-up huh?

No offense taken :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TravisT:

I agree that to really get a flavor for high level competition a guy (or gal) should go to a major event. Trust me, even though I am still an IPSC newbie, I had my perception of reality altered many years ago when I was competing in another discipline against Olympic and Pan Am shooters. I have been beaten by the very best and that meant more to me than winning first at home.

In my view one will rise to the level of competition. Some of us don't have the resources required to leave the "porch" on a regular basis so-to-speak so we work to become the biggest frog in our pond. If all of the big frogs leap out of our little ponds, then what are we to do to maintain interest, growth, and local rivalries? I really feel that it is in the best interest of the shooting sports for the big guns to remember us grassroots folks and to shoot some of the smaller matches if their time allows them to do it.

On the other hand, I realize that some of the better shooters are working on their own goals and often times they are better off saving their time and money by working on specific skills at home in practice rather than shooting local matches.

Opinions vary on this and I know that some shooters feel like the GM shooters should step aside and give the rest of us a chance at the local level. Not me, I would rather lose to a GM and learn something along the way.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This thread reminds me of something we have seem to have almost lost in USPSA, just enjoying your friends while having a good pistolmatch. I remember when everyone stayed after the match and had a good time, now the majority can't wait to get away.  

JJ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here's some of the shooters at a typical match in the Puget Sound region:

*T Stidham, GM

*Y Lee, GM

*J Desimone, GM

*T Tomasie, GM

*L Munson, A (2000/2001 LimNat Ladies Champ)

*T Ketells, M

*E Einar, M

*G Purcell, M

*F Shoemaker, M

*R Engleke, M

*S Wiley, M

.....ect

For all who don't shoot in the Seattle area, let it be known that 80% of the above mentioned folks will appear at weekly matches at one of  the 7 clubs in the area.

Man, I've got all the competition I need here on my porch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm going to jump to Travis' defence here...he's right. Even here in Canada we find that the better shooters tend to be from the same areas...there's a group on the West coast, and a group in Ont. Thats not to say that there aren't good shooters elsewhere...just that if the top guys are in one area, it drives the rest of the pack up a notch. Then you end up with more top shooters. Look at Rio Salado, I doubt there is a club anywhere that has the same number of GM's shooting regularily. (and I mean 'real' GM's, not grandbaggers). If Matt had stuck in the northwest, together with Travis, I'll bet you'd see a huge jump in skill level, as they push each other, they push everybody. Its just the way it is.

Pat

PS. I just shot my 6th US National Championship (with my highest finish yet) and I'll tell you, no matter how good you may think you are, it's always a humbling experience

(Edited by Pat Harrison at 2:41 pm on Oct. 3, 2001)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TT,

It was cool meeting you out there.  You almost lost some of your hardware though.  I was going to try and seek up and get your Limited awards off of the table.  You must have been out tuning up your race gun.

Don't run off the forum yet.  We still need you advice and perspective.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TT, please ignore me.

The folks on this forum would rather wax their genitalia twice per month than face the realization that T. Tomasie didn't participate on this board anymore.  

I've seen to many flare-ups like this on discussion forums where the end result was a valuable resourse (person) was lost.  

I don't want to carry that burden.

BTW, what's wrong with a little jousting anyway?

It's all good......

Take Care.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Flex, we all need a new porch!  i shoot at one club about 2.5 hours from me with 2 lower-mid level GM's its a very humbling experience!

sorry Travis but i would rather see you gone than wax my self. but would like to see you stay. (a man has to draw his line somewhere, and thats where i draw mine!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...