What to do when the club doesn't send in the classifier match fees

[BrianS]

I've now shot two matches at a local club over the last couple of years that seem to magically disappear.

The first match in 2008 never showed up at USPSA at all. The scores from the one this year were inputed, but according to Val at USPSA the match fees were never paid so my classifier score, which would be very close to moving me up a class, isn't being processed.

Needless to say this is a bit irritating. When I pay my match fees I expect my scores to be recorded and processed.

I've tried contacting the Match Director via PM & email, but so far I'm not getting any response. I guess I will have to do it at the shooters meeting in front of everyone at the next match.

I enjoy the matches at this club as they are well designed and fun to shoot, but what's the point if your scores aren't going to count?

Can anyone tell me what the protocol is for paying the match fees to USPSA, and what would you do if your match fees aren't being sent in?

[Jadeslade]

We have this problem at my local club.

It is run like a fiefdom. Pretty much why I only shoot bigger matches. Don't go. Go to another club.

[DWFAN]

Maybe you can explain the situation to USPSA and pay the fee for your classifier. Then dont shoot at that club anymore.

[diehli]

If you want resolution rather than confrontation, it would be best to speak with him about it privately. If he promises something and doesn't deliver, take it up with USPSA. My guess is that collection of funds that are meant for USPSA but then diverted (if that, indeed, is what's happening) would result in affiliation being revoked, if not more.

[pvhendrix]

Not sure where you are located. In most states there are criminal statutes that would cover "obtaining funds under false pretenses". Potentially there is the issue of diversion of club funds or converting funds for personal use, within the embezzelment statutes. All of those circumstances could/should lead to criminal prosecution.

[Corey]

if the club wont respond to you and wont do what they are supposed to, id try to avoid that club

[BrianS]

Maybe you can explain the situation to USPSA and pay the fee for your classifier. Then dont shoot at that club anymore.

Thanks for all your responses! I've sent an email to Val at USPSA to see if I can just pay another classifier fee directly to them so that they can process my classifier. It's not ideal, but it's better than losing a classifier score I really need.

I'll let you know what I find out from her.

[Sarge]

if the club wont respond to you and wont do what they are supposed to, id try to avoid that club

I totally agree. BUT I would hate to pass on an otherwise good match. In our area there are three maybe four matches that are offered. That would be a 25% reduction. Seems like it would only hurt the shooter in the long run.

[murkish]

Another way to approach this problem is to get involved and volunteer to help with Stats. I would not automatically assume that there is something nefarious going on. They may just need help. With a very few exceptions, this is a sport run by volunteers. If you do not like the service you are getting, maybe you can help make it better.

Regards,

Jack

[raz-0]

Hmm ever figure that the reason why you aren't getting any response from the MD and the reason why they aren't up to date on stuff might be connected? 

This is a volunteer sport, and I can tell you that I have yet to run into a match that has all the help it can use to run smoothly all the time. 

Ask the MD at the match, I'm sure you'll get an answer. 

[BrianS]

For the record I'm not looking to get anyone in any trouble, and/or create problems for the club in question! I just want to know that if I shoot a match there my classifier score will be counted whether it's a good one or not.

Also, I don't believe the person that uploads our scores is the person that is responsible for sending in the money. I could be wrong about that, but for all I know it may be someone at the club who doesn't even shoot the matches so I'm not accusing anyone of anything nefarious. It could just be a mix-up, which is understandable if it was just one time. However, it's not the first time..

As far as not shooting at this club Sarge is right. It would seriously diminish my chances to shoot USPSA at all because of where I live in relation to the few clubs in this state. Right now I'm lucky if I can shoot USPSA once a month during the season. Normally this is the club I go to as it's where most of my buddies shoot at, but I guess that will be something I will need to consider if this issue isn't resolved. There were at least 30 other shooters at this match, so surely I'm not the only one that would like his/hers classifier score processed!

One other thing, and that is I did volunteer to take on the task of upload the scores for this club when the new match director was introduced last year, but I was told it was already covered. Since then all of the matches I've shot there have been uploaded to USPSA so that's not the issue. The problem here is the money hasn't been sent in. It's been five weeks since the match in question. Surely that is enough time for even the busiest person to drop a check in the mail...

I have contacted our Area Coordinator and he indicated he would look in to it. I haven't heard back from Val at USPSA yet about paying my fee again personally in order to have the score processed, but I'm sure she will reply when she gets time.

Edited September 16, 2010 by BrianS

[BrianS]

Val just replied to my request to pay my own fee again, but unfortunately she indicated that's not the way it works. USPSA can only accept a payment from the club, So either the club sends in the money or no one's classifier scores will be counted.

[1911jerry]

Some clubs wait and combine matches on one check. I shot one club that only sent in info quarterly.

JS

[broadus123]

I would ask the club about the problem You are paying that fee yourself. If you don't get anywhere I'd stop shooting there

[mscott]

I've had a couple of classifiers lost over the last few years and been put in the wrong division twice. I'm sure I'm not the only one, but this stuff just happens every now and then. I'd say just be patient until you can talk to the MD on the side and ask how the whole payment and classifier thing works. For what match directors and stats people get paid, I can't complain.

[BrianS]

I've had a couple of classifiers lost over the last few years and been put in the wrong division twice. I'm sure I'm not the only one, but this stuff just happens every now and then. I'd say just be patient until you can talk to the MD on the side and ask how the whole payment and classifier thing works. For what match directors and stats people get paid, I can't complain.

I hear you Mike! I fully realize & understand that no one is getting paid (other than the club) to stage USPSA matches, but my stance on it is if a club is going to stage a match part of that is making sure the fees are sent in.

For me personally I feel that if I'm going to practice and fret over shooting a classifier I'd like to know in advance that I'm going to get credit for it. This is twice now I've lost a score at this club that would have allowed me to move up a class, or at the very least put me within a few 10ths of a percent of doing so.

Again I'm not blaming any one person because I have no idea who is responsible for sending in the money, and like I said previously it could be someone at the club who isn't directly involved in the matches that simply dropped the ball (again..). However, my limited understanding is that part of the way USPSA is funded is from the match fees that are collected at all USPSA matches. Not only does not paying them to USPSA hurt the shooters who shot the match, but it also hurts USPSA as a whole.

To be honest I really hate to be the prick, but I want my score counted & the one thing I'm not going to do is let it go this time as I did last time. Once is bad enough, twice is unacceptable. I'm not out to hurt anyone or get anyone in trouble, but the fact is every other club I've ever shot at had the scores uploaded within 24 hours, and had the fees sent in before the next process date.

If they need someone to do this I'd be happy to take on the responsiblity, and I'll make that known when I get a response from the powers that be.

Edited September 17, 2010 by BrianS

[Maksim]

Brian,

I am with you 100%.

If you are paying for the classifier, you should be getting it.

Yes, this is a volunteer sport, however it doesnt make the tasks less important nor does it give anyone a reason to do a worse job at it. If the volunteer does not have the time to do it, find another volunteer who does.

[Seth]

If they need someone to do this I'd be happy to take on the responsiblity, and I'll make that known if I ever get a response from the powers that be.

THAT'S the key, right there. If the system is flawed, be the solution.

We submit scores the instant that they're done. I pay for them personally and the club reimburses me the fees. Its a pain to float 100 people every month, but it gets done and done right.

[Flexmoney]

If they need someone to do this I'd be happy to take on the responsiblity, and I'll make that known if I ever get a response from the powers that be.

It is good to see you volunteer.

While I am not directly involved, I can inquire about having the stats officer copy you on the match bill from USPSA. You can pay the bill. Then, submit the invoice to the club's BOD and they will cut you a check at their monthly meeting.

[BrianS]

If they need someone to do this I'd be happy to take on the responsiblity, and I'll make that known if I ever get a response from the powers that be.

It is good to see you volunteer.

While I am not directly involved, I can inquire about having the stats officer copy you on the match bill from USPSA. You can pay the bill. Then, submit the invoice to the club's BOD and they will cut you a check at their monthly meeting.

Yes I am very willing to take on the job of uploading the scores & sending in the fees if that's what needs to happen! I already voluteered to do that last year, but was told it was already handled.

Frankly it seems to me that the club should be able to pay the fees without a non-club officer/member having to pay it out of their own pocket & then hope for reinbursment at some future date since the club has the cash that was collected at the match, but I can do that if that's what it takes to get the classifiers at this club processed. I'd certainly have a better feeling about if I was supplied the match fee money upfront though as there already seems to be an issue with cutting checks..

[Flexmoney]

Frankly it seems to me that the club should be able to ...

Run for the club's BOD. It would be nice to get another pistol shooter on there. That would double our input on how things are run.

[BrianS]

Frankly it seems to me that the club should be able to ...

Run for the club's BOD. It would be nice to get another pistol shooter on there. That would double our input on how things are run.

If I had time for that I'd have time to shoot more than one match a month...

[BrianS]

Good news!

The MD got back to me with an explanation, and indicated that the fees are on their way!

Thanks for everyone's comments and suggestions!

[Poppa Bear]

We have a couple of debit cards tied to our club accounts. When the scores are uploaded, we also pay the fees with the card. The account is an online account so we make sure it has just enough money to cover fees. Major purchases are made using the checkbook.

[ken hebert]

Ask him after the L.A.M.R. command is given...