New to 223 Reloading

[jgedmond]

I just got geared up to load 223 (first time reloading center-fire rifle) and ran into a speed bump. I am using a Hornady 223 full length resizing die adjusted per Hornady instructions. The sized and trimmed cases chamber very tightly, if at all, in my CMMG 5.56 mid-length, but seem to chamber fine in my Colt LE6920. I would like my reloads to work in both guns.

I tried coloring the case with a marker before inserting it into the CMMG, but did not see any particular place of contact with the chamber. I am thinking that this is a headspace issue with the shoulder. Does that make sense or am I missing something else? Would a small base die help with that issue?

[jtielke]

Try turning your resizing die down another 1/4 turn or more. I had to overcam mine quite a bit to get my .223 rounds to chamber properly.

[Fullauto_Shooter]

Good advice to screw your dies down a bit - mine are set up so there is a definite "over-camming" action. Also - are you trimming your cases and if so, to what length?

If all else fails, try the RCBS Small Base X-Die for resizing. I had occasional chambering problems until I switched to these dies and it fixed 99% of my problems.

Oh yeah - I recommend you get a case-gauge and use it on EVERY SINGLE round you reload.

[jgedmond]

Thanks for the advice so far. I'll try screwing down on the resizer and get a case gauge tomorrow to see if that makes a difference.

BTW, trimming case length to 1.750" per Hornady manual.

Edited September 4, 2010 by jgedmond

[Corey]

if youare wanting to shoot the brass interchangeably in both ARs, you may want to consider a small base sizing die. When you size the case, you should be bumping the shoulder back about .004-.005.

[jmurch]

Buy a .223 case gauge.

Jeff

[warpspeed]

There have been others who have swore at using the RCBS SB dies but I have ha great success with them in both a single stage press, a 550 & 1050. The key for me was to use the Dillon spray lube. I've not stuck a case with it.

You definitely need a case gauge. There is no other way to assure the shoulder is set back correctly and that is the critical measurement. The trimmed length, while important, is not so critical. It just needs to be withing the range and consistent.

[Corey]

There have been others who have swore at using the RCBS SB dies but I have ha great success with them in both a single stage press, a 550 & 1050. The key for me was to use the Dillon spray lube. I've not stuck a case with it.

You definitely need a case gauge. There is no other way to assure the shoulder is set back correctly and that is the critical measurement. The trimmed length, while important, is not so critical. It just needs to be withing the range and consistent.

Well, technically there are other ways to measure the setback, but the case gage is probably the easiest/quickest as it doesnt involve a set of calipers

[warpspeed]

There have been others who have swore at using the RCBS SB dies but I have ha great success with them in both a single stage press, a 550 & 1050. The key for me was to use the Dillon spray lube. I've not stuck a case with it.

You definitely need a case gauge. There is no other way to assure the shoulder is set back correctly and that is the critical measurement. The trimmed length, while important, is not so critical. It just needs to be withing the range and consistent.

Well, technically there are other ways to measure the setback, but the case gage is probably the easiest/quickest as it doesnt involve a set of calipers

You are right but I figured since he said he was new to center fire rifle reloading I did not want to confuse him. I should have said it like you did ; easiest.

Edited September 4, 2010 by warpspeed

[jgedmond]

Well, I got the case gauge and an RCBS SB resizing die. The problem appears to be with the PRVI mil brass. Even after sizing with the RCBS, the head of the case protrudes a small amount above the case gauge. I tried some Adcom MIL brass using the same die it fit in the case gauge just fine! Any thoughts on the PRVI brass?

[Fullauto_Shooter]

Well, I got the case gauge and an RCBS SB resizing die. The problem appears to be with the PRVI mil brass. Even after sizing with the RCBS, the head of the case protrudes a small amount above the case gauge. I tried some Adcom MIL brass using the same die it fit in the case gauge just fine! Any thoughts on the PRVI brass?

You might consider trimming your brass to 1.720 - that's what I do and I've never had any problems with the head of the case protruding above the case gauge. I assume you're trimming after re-sizing, correct?

[jgedmond]

You might consider trimming your brass to 1.720 - that's what I do and I've never had any problems with the head of the case protruding above the case gauge. I assume you're trimming after re-sizing, correct?

Yes, I resize then trim, but I am using 1.750" as trim length. FYI, I checked an unfired PRVI round and it fit in the gauge.

[DougCarden]

All brass has it's good and bad points. I would cull out the Priv brass and check all of them. If they all stick out then it may be a bad batch of brass. If everything else gauges, you are doing it correctly and the brass is the weak link. The best thing I did when learning to load .223 was to read the Big Sierra reloading manual, they have a large section on loading rifle, and also specifically .223 for ARs.....good stuff!

Keep at it!

DougC

[jgedmond]

All brass has it's good and bad points. I would cull out the Priv brass and check all of them. If they all stick out then it may be a bad batch of brass. If everything else gauges, you are doing it correctly and the brass is the weak link. The best thing I did when learning to load .223 was to read the Big Sierra reloading manual, they have a large section on loading rifle, and also specifically .223 for ARs.....good stuff!

Keep at it!

DougC

Thanks to all for all of the help and tips. I'm going to go through my brass and sort by headstamp. Most of it is stuff that I shot: PRVI, Adcom, Lake City, maybe one or two others. My plan is to try resizing a few of each headstamp to see what works and what doesn't.

[jmurch]

If the unfired brass fits the case gauge and the sized brass doesn't I can't think of any other reason than shoulder setback. I can't imagine any way that the case head diameter could grow. Just keep adjusting the sizing die down until the case head drops below the guage and then adjust it back up. Is the sizing die and the case clean?

A tip for lube since you'r new to reloading that I'm sure you can find elsewhere as well. I use 16 oz of 99% Isoproply Alcohol ($1.79) from Safeway and 4 oz of pure lanolin ($4.99) from EBay. Mix it all up in a 32oz spray bottle and you'll have enoungh lube to last 5,000 cases for less than $7.00. I clean my sixing die with a shot of carb cleaner every couple of hundered rounds to prevent any buildup as well.

Jeff

[jgedmond]

If the unfired brass fits the case gauge and the sized brass doesn't I can't think of any other reason than shoulder setback. I can't imagine any way that the case head diameter could grow. Just keep adjusting the sizing die down until the case head drops below the guage and then adjust it back up. Is the sizing die and the case clean?

A tip for lube since you'r new to reloading that I'm sure you can find elsewhere as well. I use 16 oz of 99% Isoproply Alcohol ($1.79) from Safeway and 4 oz of pure lanolin ($4.99) from EBay. Mix it all up in a 32oz spray bottle and you'll have enoungh lube to last 5,000 cases for less than $7.00. I clean my sixing die with a shot of carb cleaner every couple of hundered rounds to prevent any buildup as well.

Jeff

Jeff, thanks for the lube tip, I'll give it a try when I run out of One Shot.

I think that I discovered the issue with the brass is that case heads grew when firing. If I insert the cases into the gauge upside down, they do not go in. If I Dremel the case head of the fired brass a little, they gauge properly, so the shoulder is good. I found out about this happening to another guy from a thread on the high road forum:

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-440962.html

I am not sure why this is happening since the brass was shot in one of my AR's, not some military machine gun or loose chambered weapon. Maybe the loads were too hot or the brass was just under spec and grew out of spec? Guess that I need to go buy some brass and pitch most of this once-fired stuff.

[DougCarden]

Um...yeah.....I would dump the One-shot lube for rifle, especially .223, and use the Dillon or RCBS lube....If you continue to use One-shot I would use it liberally and have a stuck case removal kit handy for not if it will happen, but when it happens....

DougC

[jmurch]

I would be interested to hear theories on why the diameter of the case head would increase. I'm trying to think of anything. I guess really really hot loads that cause the primer cup to push laterally on the walls of the primer pocket??? If it was that hot I would guess that the case would either be stuck in the chamber or have a chunk rippied off when it tried to extract.....

I agree with the previous poster one shot will likely get you a stuck case unless you use lots of it.

Jeff

[BrianATL]

I think its just something with the PRVI brass, I am having the exact same issue with the brass some fired in an AR some fired from a 223 bolt gun. I never had any problem with the brass extracting. I am running a load of 24.0-24.5 Varget 80 grain SMK. The brass goes through the resizing die pretty hard then the case head wont pass the case gauge. I am just chunking all that brass.

[jgedmond]

OK, I checked the case heads of all of my brass with the case gauge and crimped the mouth of those that did not pass. The rest I cleaned, resized and deprimed, and trimmed to 1.750". All of those cases looked good in the gauge. I loaded up ten each of 5 different loads of Varget in Lake City brass to chrono at the range tomorrow. In the meantime, I think I'll just order some Lapua brass and restart with that.

[jmurch]

I wouldn't go that far (with the Lapua). Most GM long range shooters don't even use it. I would go buy some once fired lake city, a primer pocket uniformer (to remove the crimp) and a bushing die (to get consistant neck tension). The LC brass and the new die will still be a bunch less money than the Lapua and you won't be holding everyone up while you'r looking for the last 2 pieces of Lapua in the grass.

[TonyH]

I wouldn't go that far (with the Lapua). Most GM long range shooters don't even use it. I would go buy some once fired lake city, a primer pocket uniformer (to remove the crimp) and a bushing die (to get consistant neck tension). The LC brass and the new die will still be a bunch less money than the Lapua and you won't be holding everyone up while you'r looking for the last 2 pieces of Lapua in the grass.

+1, LC brass works fine & you could buy alot more of it for the price of the Lapua.

[jgedmond]

I wouldn't go that far (with the Lapua). Most GM long range shooters don't even use it. I would go buy some once fired lake city, a primer pocket uniformer (to remove the crimp) and a bushing die (to get consistant neck tension). The LC brass and the new die will still be a bunch less money than the Lapua and you won't be holding everyone up while you'r looking for the last 2 pieces of Lapua in the grass.

I could definitely see that happening - I'm not leaving until I have the 50 pieces of brass that I came with!!

On a serious note, I shot the loads I made using LC once-fired brass, Varget, and Hornady 55 gr. FMJ-BT with cannelure. I was very impressed with the accuracy and consistency, I think that I am gonna like this.

After pulling the bullets from the PRVI brass, I put some WD-40 in the cases to kill the primers and several leaked through the primer to casing "seal". Damn glad I did not try to shoot those.

[anachronism]

If you really feel the need to try new brass, I'd suggest Winchester or possibly Remington, in that order. I use Lake City the most, like pretty much everybody else. I also keep a bunch of mixed military cases around to reload in case of a "lost brass" match. I just finished processing another thousand or so 223 military brass, and am quite sick of looking at them at this point.

[pjb45]

I was new to 223 reloading until a couple of thousand rounds ago.

Separate PMC/fc/FC brass. It is not worth the trouble for me anymore. I have about 1500 rounds loaded up and will just leave them on the range.

LC is pretty good stuff.

Premier brass like Hornady, WW, Remington, I keep separate.

If I go to RM3G again, I will use either LC or my premier brass that has been reloaded a few times. A lot less headaches.

I trim to slight less than 1.75, not much.

I taper crimp all my rounds.

Try Scharch for brass. Some folks here recommended them. Great service. Three Gun season is over for me so I put all my reloading stuff away after I loaded about 4k worth of rounds. Next year, now that I am no longer a rookie, I will use Scharch brass almost exclusively when I need new brass. Way easier.