jwfuhrman Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 (edited) Im on M4C much more, and get my info from there, from people who use this their guns for more than just gaming, or range toys. Yeah having your gun ride around in the trunk of your squad car or sit in an armory is a much better way to see how it shoots as compared to putting 15-20k down range in training and competition. You just lost all of your credibility on this forum my friend. You might think about going back to that not posting much status. Good job on Cop bashing Jesse. http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=7009 For all the FACTS you'll need edit: link to the actual Tech Section sub forum, instead of just a consolidated link tread http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=4 Edited September 2, 2010 by Jon Fuhrman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwfuhrman Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 Ha now thats funny!!!! because I'd bet everyone that posted to YOUR comments are VETS, COPS, and such. Sorry we hurt your feelings but I still do not see your FACTS listed anywhere, but then I'm just a Vet, public servant, I have contracted before but it was to a govt entity that I can't talk about As for your f^c&ing gamer comment, that sure is pretty shirt you wear on your avatar. trapr did hurt my feelings one bit. just gave me something to laugh at. Like your "Cant talk about Contract" work, Im sure you have, the M4C people I refer to all all staff, or have proven their records and knowledge on said site -Chris Costa, Travis Haley of MagPul Dynamics(Travis was a Recon Marine and contracted with Blackwater in Iraq, he is actually in a highly watch video that can before on youtube of "Blackwater Snipers in Iraq, he is the shoot), Larry Vickers of Vickers Tactical, and a few others. Nothin against you personally, or anyone personally. I had read on here actually, that people were having luck with lower weight bullets in 1/7 guns and I had some 45gr Federal JHP Varmint ammo I had been wanting to try to for Varmint use, obviously(since they are JHP Varmint rounds). Out of the 40 or so I shot I had 3 that mysteriously left multiple small rips and fragment holes in the target I was using(25yds for a 25/100 zero). Now, could be that the Federal Varmint 45gr is just bad bullets, but from what Ive researched before I built any of my guns, the sub 52gr thru a 1/7 is spinning to fast for as high of velocity they are traveling(didnt chrono them, but I would think they are like the Winchester Varmint loads and going 3500+?) The technical section of M4Carbine.net is VERY HANDY. Now, it is also geared towards "Professional Use, Fighting Rifle" information, while, this is obviously a site geared towards the "Gaming" aspect of Rifle shooting, so that also plays a factor in where Im coming from. Hope that clarifies things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 Gee...Im a vet I may not have any Cred at arfcom...or m4c And I have only been building AR15s for 30 years...and then, only a few more than 1000 I quess I cant argue with a guy that used BCM barrels An honest and good opinion..would be to listen to guys like Trapr and Kurt They ARE real world guys,and know Exactly what they are talking about! You may find hurling insults at people here that have earned great respect among their peers...just aint gonna fly. And if you care to look, you may find Your REAL world guys...seek training from people just like the ones you are insulting here. Regards Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sniperfrog Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 Gee...Im a vet I may not have any Cred at arfcom...or m4c And I have only been building AR15s for 30 years...and then, only a few more than 1000 I quess I cant argue with a guy that used BCM barrels An honest and good opinion..would be to listen to guys like Trapr and Kurt They ARE real world guys,and know Exactly what they are talking about! You may find hurling insults at people here that have earned great respect among their peers...just aint gonna fly. And if you care to look, you may find Your REAL world guys...seek training from people just like the ones you are insulting here. Regards Jim I can back that up by saying that your military Tier 1 units and SOCOM units typically get there training from "gamers". Guys like Jerry Barnhart, Todd Jarrett, Mike Voigt, etc... John Shaw has trained quite a few Navy SEALs over the years and so has Barnhart. Neither one was in the military but they are experts in there field. I visit M4Carbine as well and have friends on that site that I know are quite knowledgable. I also come to this site because not many people shoot more than hard core 3 gunners. That includes SOCOM units. A few months ago I worked a little with Tom Carpenter and he said he put a little over 100,000 rounds down range last year. After seeing him shoot, I believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 Well Jon I have to "LIE" to you one more time! To quote you "Out of the 40 or so I shot I had 3 that mysteriously left multiple small rips and fragment holes in the target I was using(25yds for a 25/100 zero). Now, could be that the Federal Varmint 45gr is just bad bullets" The reality of your statement is WAY OFF for that particular load ( and ANY OTHER COMMON .223/5.56x45 load). For a 25 yard zero you would be over 6" high at 100 yards. it wold be much closer to a 350 yard zero. I hope you didn't learn this form M4.Com cause that is a bit of bad info you got from that site. As for bullets deflagrating on the way to the target, yes it does happen, but it has far more to do with depth of rifling and VELOCITY than it does twist rate. The bullet Federal uses in that load is also used in 22-250 rounds and no one has complained about those blowing up, but YES I have seen bullets come apart PERSONALLY, and it is usually attributed to rough chrome lining, ESPECIALLY IN THE THROAT in deep grooved barrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArturoJ Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 Thanks to sniperfrog for bringing up projectile lenght not wieght. For some details on this check this link on rifling twist rate. Don't believe me, beleive the Greenhill formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 Again, more hatred for the gamers. If the need arises for me to get some additional information about the terminal ballistics of high pressure rifle bullets as applied to the human body I will seek the counsel of people who have that information. Now we are talking about the most appropriate rifle twist for three gun. I was interested in your over spun bullet story because I had heard it before but did not then find it plausible under the conditions you described. Your information has too many holes in it to sway my beliefs. I was going to continue this discussion and even typed a good bit of additional reply but then decided better. No good will come from continuing on. Never try to teach a pig to sing, it is a waste of your time, and annoys the pig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArturoJ Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 I never did like the "Stop right where you are! You know the score, pal. You're not cop, you're little people!" line of thought. It is too Ad hominem for my INTP personality type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 CLOSED. I may clean it out and reopen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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