bikedoctor Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 The Conflict: I have spent three months wrestling with the classic "To buy competition ready" vs "Buy a base rifle and build up" conumdrum. Coming from the hi performance bicycle industry I remember that OEM's typically have the ability to use their buying power to build equally matched performace at a much cheaper price than the average Joe can piece together. And although there may be more competatively built rifles on the market I had a budget of $1,200.00. Some guys on the forum heard my dilehma and steered me to the newly release Panther 3G1. For me to have built this rifle from a base model AR-15 I would have spent $1,500.00 and has a box of goodies I would likely never use again. The Order: The Panther 3G1 (RFA3-3G1) was purchased online for $1,050.00 through Nelson Tactical in Greenbay, WI, (http://www.nelsontactical.com/products/) as that is the only place in the country I could find it. I gave the guys at DPMS some friendly grieff as I prefer to buy from my local dealer in Shreveport, LA at Cash in a Flash Pawn as both Jeremy and Todd are three gunners and have spent at least two hours helping me with this decision. Yet the rifle was never available and the sku didn't exist with many distributors. So DPMS tech support hooked me up with Tom and Chris at Nelson Tactical. I hate that I couldn't support my brick and motor but all props to Chirs and Tom for top notch service, ease of order and above all constant communitcation with me as to the invoice and tracking number. First Impressions: I was surprised how nice the plastic case was for a low priced rifle: The inside of the case provide a place for a sling, cleaning kit, two magazines and notice the space for a surpressor Neat low ride gas block with piccy top. The freefloat guard will clear this upon removal. You also receive a red chamber flag and a nice "ergo grip". Jury is still out on this but it is comfortable on the strong hand middle finger and does not pinch. No ear plug needed to wedge between the trigger gaurd and grip to prevent the pinch. The ambi safety was causing some discomfort so to avoide engaging the safey accidentally I rotated the slector 180 degrees so it is out of the way but on the rifle so I dont loose it. The sling swivel is well made if you plan on usning the included mil spec sling. The Miculek compensator is not timed and rightly so as DPMS would be making an assumption as to the shooter being a rightly or south paw. Mag pull adjustable stock. Not my choice but no complaints so far. No slop once you engage the pins. The cleaning kit is classic mil spec but DPMS includes a trigger housing rug for those who choose the extra insurace aagainst loose primers. The rifle is a bit barrel heavy and weighed in at 8.5lbs. with detachable iron sights and no mag. Lets see if the photos loaded, besides I need to go deposit this coffee at headquarters. (pee break) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikedoctor Posted August 22, 2010 Author Share Posted August 22, 2010 To find the balance of the rifle I had to move my hand about 2 inches forward of the barrel ring. this may help you see the weight bias to the barrel. Of course, if one was to flute it and change to a lighter free float tube I'm sure this bias could be mitagated. I need to consider that much of this hardware will follow me later to Afghanistan, so for now I happy to get use to the feel. I did like that the bolts on the bolt were staked. MAGPUL stock. Nice looking chamber while learning muscle memory at the 7 yard line doing the grueling 50 round "Dot Drill" I thought the CCMG .22 convertion would help save ammo money. I'm having trouble getting the conversion kit to enter the chamber without resistance. I wonder if this is due to the .223 chamber? Okay you iron sight zealots. Heres your chance to pile on. I did swap the stock front sight post for a thinner national match fron sight post. Both Todd and Jeremy prefer this set up so I'll give it a try. Ummm. JP match trigger. Nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikedoctor Posted August 22, 2010 Author Share Posted August 22, 2010 Sorry for not knowing how to put this in one post. Final random shots New Panther 3G1 owners please feel free to add complaints and improvements to the model as a resource for the rest of us. Verteran 3 gunners, please expound on what you see good and bad and improve us. Kevin Prepare for Glory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATAS Posted August 22, 2010 Share Posted August 22, 2010 I haven't shot any 3 gun yet but I'm really looking forward to it so I can dominate that 3 gun nation show. I'm more into the tactical scene. But I have shot a bunch of rifles with adjustable gas blocks and lightened bolts. They shoot softer and faster. Good review. That 3G whatever looks to be a pretty good out of the box rifle for this 3 gun game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sako92S Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Nice rifle for factory build and decent priced. There might be one part that I would change. The grip for MIAD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikedoctor Posted August 23, 2010 Author Share Posted August 23, 2010 Sako, I'm not familiar with the grip either. Tango Down? Not sure. Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShooterSteve Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 Check out the Stark grip. Once you have one you won't change... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A6Gator Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 bikedoctor, I was thinking the same thing. Either build, convert something already made or buy a factory build. Didn't get quite as good a deal as yours, but it had everything I was going to put on mine anyway, so now it's just a question of peeks and tweeks. I'm in the process now of installing an Accupoint on mine before heading to the range. I did have a couple of questions, though. (1)How important is the barrel break-in procedure the manual discusses(clean between each shot through 25, then every 10 up to 100...)? Obviously, everybody wants the most accurate rifle they can have, especially on those 300-400yd shots. (2)I've been trying to find someone who knows how to tune a compensator. I called Clark and they said they just install them flat when they build something, but if it's a question of putting a few rounds downrange, if I follow the break-in procedure, I'll have a whole bunch time to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Middle Man Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 I know a wholesale outfit with three in stock... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikedoctor Posted August 23, 2010 Author Share Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) A6, You sound like you live in the Pelican state. Both this forum and m4carbine.net have great recommendations for barrel break in but all the seasoned 3 gunners I talk to say it is a waste of time. I on the other hand like the machine and find it helps me bond with my guns and I'm proud to know that I did everything on my part to make them as accurate as possible. The downside is that when I miss I have no excuse. But I'm a little weird. I once had a putter that was giving my fits, so I made it sleep in the toilet one night to "teach it a lesson". Ironically the putter started putting better. If you like me have the need to dot every "I" and cross every "T" for mental happiness than barrel break in is critical. Life and death. Cats and dogs living together if you don't. But scientifically I doubt barrel breakin is critical for sub 400 meter shooting. K Edited August 23, 2010 by bikedoctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A6Gator Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 I've always heard about a barrel break-in, but the only guys I know who do it religiously are the F-class shooters. I guess when you weigh each bullet before you load it, taking some time to "break in" a barrel is nothing. How about dialing in the compensator? I see Miculek talks about tuning his comp in, but I haven't met anyone that has actually done it or knows how to do it. Like I said previously, when I called the tech guys at Clark, they said they install them flat. I put one on my 6940 and tried to see a difference w/tweaking the comp a bit and couldn't see much difference. Not trying to hijack the thread, but how do you dial in a comp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikedoctor Posted August 23, 2010 Author Share Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) Meet me at Clark's today after work or this weekend and we'll work on it. Remember, Jerry has a red dot indexed at 1 0'clock and probably has a lot to do with how he times his comp. Otherwise, without knowing if the shooter is righty or lefty would explain why the comp is set "neutral". Let's keep this thread focused on the 3G1 as a resource for others but I would definitely encourage you to start a new thread as I also have some questions. Kevin Edited August 23, 2010 by bikedoctor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26120 Posted August 23, 2010 Share Posted August 23, 2010 I have a 308 Sportical and just love it.But what i wanted to say was once you get some glass on your gun that great looking case will not work.But I didnt want it to go to waste.I found that my STG58 FALs will fit in there nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikedoctor Posted August 24, 2010 Author Share Posted August 24, 2010 Good call 26120. Room for a silencer but not optics. Classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffWard Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 I went the other route, and started with a DPMS Sporticle. I have about $1400 in mine, but that includes 2 optics (Millett DMS, and an EoTech) Mikulek Comp DPMS Freefloat Handguard (Custom Milled) Low-Pro Gas Block JP-Adjustable Trigger Magpul CTR Stock Magpul MIAD Grip I have a box full of worthless parts... unless I buy a new stripped lower... and start on Number 2... Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 I have a DPMS flat top with a DD 16" M4 barrel in 1/7 twist. Very happy with this rifle. I have been looking at the 3G. Have you shot this and what kind of range report do you have. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbullgpd Posted September 20, 2010 Share Posted September 20, 2010 Besides having my front iron sight mounted at the comp its pretty much just like mine, if this gun was available when I was in the market for one, it would have saved me some build time and money. Nice find, didn't even know they were making this gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New4John Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 Bike Doc, how is the fit on yours? I had one on order and received it today. I'm less than thrilled about the upper to lower fit. I've never had an AR that had slop between the upper and lower, but this one sure does. I'm gonna give DPMS a ring tomorrow, but curious how yours was. Also did you say your came with an ambi-safety? This one did not. I also have a very different case than yours. Mine is lined with egg shell and not laid out in individual compartments like your, but it does fit in my case with the Burris XTR in a LaRue SPR mount. The ergo grip is going to get swapped out for a MIAD, it's just not cup of tea. Even my wife who's pretty small thought the grip felt too thin/small in her hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted October 1, 2010 Share Posted October 1, 2010 I am picking mine up @ my FFL today. I will let you know how it looks and what kind of case came with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New4John Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 I am picking mine up @ my FFL today. I will let you know how it looks and what kind of case came with it. Please do, I'm just curious. I called DPMS about the fit and they're all over it to get it right. My first dealing with DPMS, but I'll give their customer service a huge thumbs up after they way they responded! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 I am picking mine up @ my FFL today. I will let you know how it looks and what kind of case came with it. Please do, I'm just curious. I called DPMS about the fit and they're all over it to get it right. My first dealing with DPMS, but I'll give their customer service a huge thumbs up after they way they responded! I picked it up and it came in the standard hard case with the molded compartments with a cleaning kit and 2 mags. I checked everything for fit and finish and it was tight with very little wiggle or free play between the upper and lower.Very happy with it. Mounted my new scope and took it to the range to zero. I set it up at 25 yards for a 200 yard zero. Very accurate @ 25, it will shoot through the same hole. I took it out to 100 yards and unfortunetly there was a 10-15mph crosswind so I couldn't get a good MOA, but was very tight and accurate. The JP trigger was factory set and it worked well, I found the comfort grip pistol grip a little small, but OK.I shot it in a 3-gun Sunday and other than a major problem with me not having the correct eye relief on the scope, it hit everything I could get it focused on to 300 yards and was close at 500 yards. I have ordered a new mount for the scope to move it forward to correct the eye relief. I used the stock metal mags, PMags, TapCo poly mags, and Nordic 40 rounders on PMags. They all fed and had no problems. All of the poly mags were tight and did not drop freely without a little pull. I think they will work in and be OK.I have had to sand the pmag poly ones to drop freely. Hopefully I can get the scope issue worked out and I think this will be a very good purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikedoctor Posted October 4, 2010 Author Share Posted October 4, 2010 New4John, My fit is good but I'm glad to hear DPMS taking care of you. I have found very good MOA at 50 and 100 yards. My only complaint is the heavy barrel. I may have to send it to have flutes milled into it. Anyone have to do that to a barrel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 New4John, My fit is good but I'm glad to hear DPMS taking care of you. I have found very good MOA at 50 and 100 yards. My only complaint is the heavy barrel. I may have to send it to have flutes milled into it. Anyone have to do that to a barrel? I found that I really liked the heavier barrel and the way the gun balances. I shoot a DPMS with a DD 16" M4 type barrel with a Miculek comp on it and it is a little heavier on the barrel end but feels good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New4John Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 I just dropped an acu-wedge in it for now and it's solid. I want to get it ready for a match in 3 weeks. DPMS said just send it in after that and no problem, they'll get it tight like it should be and right back to me. I had it driving tacks at 25yds and tried to get it dialed in at 100 on Saturday. I had just spent 6 hours shooting a multi-gun and was exhausted though. I got it close, but I was going from left to right to left in a 2" area, it was all me. I think I'm gonna be real pleased with it when I get it dialed in and tightened up without the use of the acu-wedge. Like you, the trigger was right from the factory and I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWFAN Posted October 27, 2010 Share Posted October 27, 2010 Besides being a little nose heavy, any other thoughts on this rifle ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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