Shooters using guns not allowed

[rupie]

I have a question about what other clubs do, we are a USPSA sanctioned club and occasionally we allow new shooters wives etc, to use a 22 rimfire pistol if it is the first time they are shooting USPSA style shooting. We explain the equipment requirements etc and use it so they get a feel for what it is all about. My question is do other clubs ever do anything like this and we have a young adult who has very little discretionary money and I borrowed him a complete production set up once and he enjoyed it. His problem is starting out early in his career he is struggling to even buy a couple boxes of factory ammo to borrow equipment to shoot and he doesn't like the idea of borrowing stuff over and over anyway. He has asked if he could shoot the course or as much as he can magazine wise with his 22 pistol and just quit where ever he ends up and not turn in his score sheet. Does anyone let new shooters do something like this?

[Chris Keen]

Absolutely! Its a great way to get people hooked on USPSA shooting.

[LT45]

At our indoor range, we run one USPSA match per month and it's by the rulebook, but the other weeks of the month the matches are considered fun shoots. We still adhere to the rules, but we have allowed exactly the same sort of thing you have outlined.

In fact, my wife first shot a 22 Buckmark at a few matches just to get past the stage fright... for no score.

At our monthly outdoor matches we only allow approved handguns per recognized divisions.

Also remember the following option is available for new shooters.

8.6.2.1 When approved by the Range Officer, competitors at Level I matches may, without penalty, receive whatever coaching or assistance they request.

[cletus9mm]

the club i shoot at in wisconsin allows .22. it is not a uspsa sanctioned range, but they call the action pistol nights an introduction to uspsa style shooting. there are guys who use the new ar style .22 rifles with 30 round mags (and its called action pistol). other people use the usual .22's such as ruger or browning. it's a very laid back place to learn. all the scoring for the action pistol nights is comstock. it's great to see younger people with little to no experience come out and learn about the sport and the people. and they get to do this without having to worry about the added expense of a centerfire firearm or ammo to feed it.

[Joe4d]

A kid I would allow to shoot a .22 as long as they wanted., An adult tag along, definitely once, maybe twice, after that uh sorry you need to get sport appropriate gear.

Nothing wrong with New shooter night or weekend non sanctioned events, I know clubs that hold back up gun events which make simple no reload stages, usually little to no movement, and are expressly marketed as a bring your wife kid friend out match. You also see the regulars show up with different items, I shot one with a cap and ball 1858 remington once.

However if you use the "USPSA" name and market it as a USPSA match you should stick to USPSA rules.

Edited August 22, 2010 by Joe4d

[bbbean]

There's a time to be a stickler for the rules and a time to do what is best for the game. If someone wants to bring their kid, wife, or even brother in-law out just to see if they like the game enough to get into it, then they ought to be able to use anything that's safe (assuming we're talking a level I club match). Obviously, if they decide they like it, they need to invest in a proper gun and setup. But do we really want to deny a potential shooter the opportunity to try the game because they're shooting a .22 or don't have mag pouches??

Consider, even the grocery store give free samples!

[Bob DuBois]

We shoot an indoor match on Tuesday night and a youth shot most of the summer with us using a 22 pistol. His dad did a great job of teaching him good firearms skills and we are glad he came. Anything we can do to get younger people involved in my mind is a plus.

[Flexmoney]

.22's are GREAT in Steel Challenge.

Any club that runs USPSA can run Steel Challenge. Just turn/set your poppers such that they don't fall when hit.

[TRev1911]

We have several junior shooters and a few female shooter who regularly shoot 22's at our USPSA matches as well as Steel Challenge Matches. They are new to the sport and don't feel comfortable shooting larger caliber hand guns yet. It is the general opinion that if they have the interest we won't turn them away from a local match. The worst thing that could happen is they have fun !

[LT45]

I know of several instances where interested first time shooters were loaned rigs.

We'd piece together some sort of Production rig, usually with a G17 or G34 and even the occasional 1911.

Most of us have enough spare stuff laying around to help pitch in.

It not only shows them what they will need to buy to compete, but more importantly, what a great bunch of guys we are...

Edited August 23, 2010 by LT45

[mdschappell]

I agree that new shooters should be allowed to use a .22 to run through stages for no score for the first match to see if they like it. But, to allow a shooter to run every match with a .22 for financial reasons probably shouldn't be allowed. There are ways to play this game inexpensively, but sorry to say not on a .22 budget.

Your local golf course wouldn't let you play with a baseball bat and a tennis raquet because that is all you can afford. Lots of hobbies are expensive, and ours is one of them.

[bbbean]

I agree that new shooters should be allowed to use a .22 to run through stages for no score for the first match to see if they like it. But, to allow a shooter to run every match with a .22 for financial reasons probably shouldn't be allowed.

That wasn't the situation presented. The situation presented was someone bringing a child, spouse, or buddy out to a local match a time or two to try the game. Nobody was talking about making a USPSA career out of shooting .22 in production

As for score, maybe I'm just not cutthroat enough, but if somebody's 10 yr old daughter outshoots me with a .22 at her first match, I'm more impressed that the kid has skills and potential than I am bothered that they beat me with "illegal" equipment. That's someone we should encourage and keep in the fold, and letting them enjoy a match or two before Mom & Dad shell out $$$ for a new gun is a pretty good way to do that.

[John Heiter]

In my experience, most local clubs have had to figure out how to make allowances for juniors and new shooters to compete with "non-standard" gear of one sort or another. We've probably all seen someone shooting a .22 in a local USPSA match. I don't know that USPSA needs to make allowances for that kind of thing officially since most clubs already handle that on their own but it probably wouldn't hurt anything if they did.

I have noticed that some of the other shooting programs at our range that do allow .22's for all competitors do seem to be experiencing some serious growth lately. Not sure if that's a local trend or what but I think it's something USPSA should be keeping an eye on. The addition of a "sub-minor" category might not be a bad thing for the sport.

[twodownzero]

The addition of a "sub-minor" category might not be a bad thing for the sport.

Goes against the principles of DVC. I don't see it ever going anywhere.

[jar]

. The addition of a "sub-minor" category might not be a bad thing for the sport.

I think USPSA's acquisition of Steel Challenge is the best solution to this. I don't want to see addition of a 22 division water down USPSA. I have no problem with level one match directors letting kids shoot for no score with 22s, but that's where it should stop. Steel Challenge is the perfect place for centerfire and 22 to coexist.

[rhgunguy]

I have a question about what other clubs do, we are a USPSA sanctioned club and occasionally we allow new shooters wives etc, to use a 22 rimfire pistol if it is the first time they are shooting USPSA style shooting. We explain the equipment requirements etc and use it so they get a feel for what it is all about. My question is do other clubs ever do anything like this and we have a young adult who has very little discretionary money and I borrowed him a complete production set up once and he enjoyed it. His problem is starting out early in his career he is struggling to even buy a couple boxes of factory ammo to borrow equipment to shoot and he doesn't like the idea of borrowing stuff over and over anyway. He has asked if he could shoot the course or as much as he can magazine wise with his 22 pistol and just quit where ever he ends up and not turn in his score sheet. Does anyone let new shooters do something like this?

Why not see if the club officers will "hire" the young man. He does the mowing, helps with set up and tear down and in exchange gets his match fees and ammo from the club. That way he is paying his own way. Good for the club, good for him.

[mark carr]

Our club started 22 ruger challenge with pistols & rifles its its been a great success we started out about mid summer 5-7 shooters by the time of the first snow we had a couple nights 28-29 shooter were expecting a good turn out for USPSA and IDPA this spring already had several new shooters ordering up new guns.

[gemcityshooter]

At my matches I allow junior shooters to use .22's if they are young. I have also let brand-new shooters use a .22 for their 1st match. My only stipulation is that they need to conform once they are familiar with the rules and such. If they absolutely don't have a larger caliber, then that is another issue.

[Pelican82]

I would say as long as an individual shows dedication to do as much as I can to help them out. Maybe instead of letting him borrow your equipment, you tell him that you are going to "sponsor" or "stake him" until he can get all his gear. Tell him you get 50% of the prize money from his winnings and endorsements

I doubt that any reasonable person would have a problem with someone shooting a .22 as long as the scores are not officially taken and the safety rules are observed.

[Yankee Dog]

I guess I dont see a problem with letting people compete on a local level with 22s for as long as they so desire. What does it hurt? It taks a cool grand+ to get started what with gun, holster, pouches etc. Not even considering the cost of ammo. Some folks will never want or be able to afford that kind of expenditure. The more people we have shooting bullets of whatever size the better.

Again, what does it hurt?

[Team Amish 1]

Yeah, letting new shooters try .22's first is a great way to ease into the habit. (Here, try .22's. It's harmless and you can stop whenever you want. )

We have one young new shooter here in Houston who has been shooting .22's for the last 3 or four weeks and just last Thursday, he tried 9x19 for the first time. Obviously, you can't post a .22 score but it's great training.

[Poppa Bear]

We have not had anyone show up wanting to shoot a .22, but we have set up people with most of the required gear to shoot a match. Last week at our fun shoot night we had a young guy show up with a railed Kimber. He had 200 rounds of ammo, 4 mags, 2 pouches, and NO holster. He ended up shooting the match but I borrowed him my .45 with holster because no one had a holster that worked with a railed .45, we borrowed him pouches and mags just so he could be competitive. Last night he came back with all the necessary gear. He's hooked.

We have also bent the rules and let new shooters with 3 mags load to capacity while shooting Production. They get the trigger time and learn how the game is played. The next time they come back they have the added mags and pouches so that they can shoot for a legal Production score. We need to get them hooked on the sport first and get them comfortable before we start strictly enforcing the rules. We always tell them to take their time and shoot safely, and we also tell them that at this stage they are not going to be real competitive so watch how others shoot the course and ask questions. Once you learn the basics you can start to work on your speed and accuracy.

[steel1212]

I might not be on the favorable side of this but if you have people wanting to shoot .22s then let them, but not at a USPSA/IDPA match. Start a steel challenge type match or a .22 only match or a new shooter orientation match. With all our movers and poppers and the lack of holserts and mag pouches it just drags down the USPSA match to much. I'm already at the range around 12 hours every match day as it is now.

We have Steel challenge at our range and we get tons of new shooters, wives, daughters, girlfriends, etc at that match and it tends to bleed over in them wanting to shoot the other sport. This is GREAT! If you don't have steel challenge steel then use your poppers and plates.

[jar]

We have also bent the rules and let new shooters with 3 mags load to capacity while shooting Production. They get the trigger time and learn how the game is played. The next time they come back they have the added mags and pouches so that they can shoot for a legal Production score. We need to get them hooked on the sport first and get them comfortable before we start strictly enforcing the rules. We always tell them to take their time and shoot safely, and we also tell them that at this stage they are not going to be real competitive so watch how others shoot the course and ask questions. Once you learn the basics you can start to work on your speed and accuracy.

Why not just have them shoot for a legal score in limited?

[Poppa Bear]

Why not just have them shoot for a legal score in limited?

They come with a 9mm. If they are shooting a .40 or .45 we direct them to the division they will most likely compete in.

Limited shooters in our club are at a minimum mid C, Production has U's and D's so again they are shooting against people close to there current level when they try things out.

These are during the Fun / Practice nights, rules are much stricter during the monthly matches.

The shooters that we let by with loading to max are usually shooting Beretta's, Sig's, or CZ's and no one else shoots them so we do not have any extra mags to share. If they are shooting a Glock, XD, or a single stack we can usually supply them with spare mags and pouches.

We do everything we can to start them off fully compliant with the rules, but if the only way they can shoot a 32 round course is to load to capacity, then that is what we will do. They know that they need to have at least 4 mags if they want to keep shooting after that. Most are hooked after that first night so they buy the required equipment before the next match.