.40S&W powder choice

[Hannu]

I use Clays for everything that does not have a comp. I like it alot, but you just can not use it with attitude : "I pick a load from powder companys manual and stick with it."

WST might be my second choice and Titegroup third, specially for 9mm 147gr loads. I only shoot jacketed/plated so no experience here if some powder smokes more or less with cast bullets.

Yeah, it is scary to see : "NEVER ever exceed our maximum loads!!!" but often they are as far from reality than moon is from earth. Specially with .40 S&W, where most people load their match ammo at least 1.17" long it makes a huge difference. Pressure barrels are usually chambered to meet minimum spec, which is something very different compared to IPSC pistols etc.

What you do not want to do with Clays, is to develop a load where powder is noticeably compressed. That may be the reason why Hodgdon lists 3,5gr as a maximum load with 180gr XTP and col 1.125" - depending on brass, it is just on the edge. When you begin to compress hard that kind of uncoated flake powder, things start to change very fast.

Easy way is to load your ammo longer. For example, (again depending little on brass) MG 180gr JHP + Clays 4,6gr col 1.21" is again very close to 100% fill ratio.

With Clays, jacketed 180gr bullet and non-compression load, a good rule of thumb is that .04" shorter oal raises pressure about 6000 psi if nothing else changes. If you use compression load, pressure change is 1.5-3x higher depending on compression level.

[d_striker]

Better...worse....safer or more dangerous? I still trying to learn

Merlin gave the thorough answer. I'll give the short.

A bullet seated deeper will have more pressure than one seated longer assuming equal powder charges. This is true of reloading anything.

[twodownzero]

Better...worse....safer or more dangerous? I still trying to learn

Merlin gave the thorough answer. I'll give the short.

A bullet seated deeper will have more pressure than one seated longer assuming equal powder charges. This is true of reloading anything.

Or, more simply put:

Pressure = force / area

A master on my squad this year at A5 was shooting Clays and 180s in his Edge. I wouldn't try it, but other do.

My loads have made 178 and 179 at the last two majors I've shot, though, so I had to back them down.

Edited November 29, 2010 by twodownzero

[ben b.]

3.9gr Solo 1000/ 180gr MG HP/ @1.120

Winchester Brass = 171pf

Are you quite sure this isn't 4.9 gr S1000?

I've loaded lots of S1000 .40 in Major and Minor, and Major for me is 4.8 gr with 180 leads/moly/plated bullets, and minor is 3.4 to 3.8, depending on the bullet (lead vs jacketed).

.40 Minor with Clays is reasonable. Clays in .40 Major with conventional lengths of 1.125" to 1.135" is way too far off the reservation, IMHO.

Edited November 29, 2010 by ben b.

[twodownzero]

3.9gr Solo 1000/ 180gr MG HP/ @1.120

Winchester Brass = 171pf

Are you quite sure this isn't 4.9 gr S1000?

I've loaded lots of S1000 .40 in Major and Minor, and Major for me is 4.8 gr with 180 leads/moly/plated bullets, and minor is 3.4 to 3.8, depending on the bullet (lead vs jacketed).

.40 Minor with Clays is reasonable. Clays in .40 Major with conventional lengths of 1.125" to 1.135" is way too far off the reservation, IMHO.

Take a look at the length he's loading...1.120". That's very short.

Major for me is in the 4.6 range. The load I've been shooting for a while that went 178/179 was 4.9. Both at 1.200".

[RangerTrace]

Well, my N320 should be here today, so I'll see what all the fuss is about

[Seth]

Its different, Trace... but after a few dozen you'll stop caring.

I am certain you will like the feel of the clays better. Its just so poofy. But as mentioned, theres no margin. I've seen a handful of .40s have case head separations and the powder has always been Clays.

320 is clean, soft enough and cool. I keep trying other powders and always come back.

[hrt4me]

I've been using Titegroup, but based on these responses in this thread I will have to give N320 a try now.

[ben b.]

Take a look at the length he's loading...1.120". That's very short.

Major for me is in the 4.6 range. The load I've been shooting for a while that went 178/179 was 4.9. Both at 1.200".

Mine are 1.125", and are 174 PF from a 4" barrel. I can see no way to use a a full grain less in charge to make major.

[RangerTrace]

Loaded my first 200 rounds with N320 yesterday for testing. 5.0 grains under a 180 grain MG JHP to 1.200. I like the way N320 measures compared to Clays and I really look forward to shooting them

[Sarge]

Loaded my first 200 rounds with N320 yesterday for testing. 5.0 grains under a 180 grain MG JHP to 1.200. I like the way N320 measures compared to Clays and I really look forward to shooting them

N320 smells good too!

You will like 320!

[Sal1950]

Vihtavuori powders, they cost at least 50% more so they got to be better right? NOT.

Then to boot your hard earned US dollars end up in the GNP of Finland.

No thanks.

Sal

[Tom D.]

If you are only going to use U.S. manufactured powders, your choices are limited, sad to say.

[Sal1950]

If you are only going to use U.S. manufactured powders, your choices are limited, sad to say.

It's a matter of setting your priorities on the wealth of the US. Think of where your money ends up when you research a purchase.

When at all possible buy the product that's made by US owned/operated companies, by US workers.

Next chose products that are produced by US owned/operated companies, but may use off shore labor. Stop transferring our national wealth off shore.

That means do things like quit buying them dang foreign cars using the excuse that they're made here in the USA by union workers. If folks didn't buy them the UAW workers would have the same jobs, only working for a US corp.

Before you whine about the decline of the US take a close look at where you send your money.

If you can't be part of the economic solutions, at least don't be part of the problem.

End Rant

Sal

Edited December 2, 2010 by Sal1950

[RangerTrace]

In our defense, I would bet that 99.9% of us purchase the VV powders from US companies. I realize it may not be manufactured here, but some good 'ole American is making money off of it

[twodownzero]

Vihtavuori powders, they cost at least 50% more so they got to be better right? NOT.

Then to boot your hard earned US dollars end up in the GNP of Finland.

No thanks.

Sal

Not to give you a crash course in international economics, but currency is a market, too. So long as there are flexible exchange rates, there's no reason to believe that buying a product from a foreign country damages our economy in any way. There's no justifiable reason to use that to decide which powder you're going to use.

I'd also add that many product with "American" brands on them come from foreign manufacturers, too (I've seen people mention that Varget comes from Europe and/or Australia depending on lot number as well as the US).

And in case you missed the memo, GNP isn't how we measure output anymore. It's all about GDP now (and for approximately the last 20 years).

Edited December 2, 2010 by twodownzero

[GForceLizard]

I will buy the best combination of price and performance. Don't give me any of that 50% more BS. Powder cost is only part of a reloaded cartridge. It's closer to 5% more. I bought one product built by the UAW. The quality was very poor. I will never do it again.

[Sarge]

This is a great thread. I sure would hate for it to get closed.

[Sal1950]

Hiroshima and Detroit 65 years after WWII. Nuff said, I will make no further comments.

Sal

[JoshF]

Clays feels exceptional in steel framed guns but it's not for the "sloppy" reloader. Work up a load an pay attention to pressure signs. Not all brass will tolerate major PF Clays loads in 40S&W.

For polymer/STI framed guns N320 is the best I've felt. It's fairly forgiving (as much as 40S&W major can be), consistent and expensive. The recoil impulse seems a "little" snappier then Clays which depending on the shooter might be a plus or minus.

I will admit I've only tried Clays, N320 and Titegroup (bad bad bad) though. Been shooting too much to mess around with others

[Corey]

with me stepping in to the .40S&W world next year this has been very helpful. looks like ill be using my titegroup until the jug is gone, then maybe trying the N320. I have pretty good access to it and powder cost isnt a huge deal in the grand scheme of things...

[Bob DuBois]

Shot titegroup in 40S@W for years, the old if it's not broke don't fix it I guess. Tried Solo 1000 in 9mm minor, IDPA gun, with heavier bullets and like it, may try Solo 1000 next loading session for 40S@W major for my Limited pistol.

Have a jug of Clays and a Jug of Solo 1000 which would you recommend to try next?

Shooting a five inch SVI using 175gn cast bullets.

[Yagi]

You would probably be ranging from 4.7 to 5.1 on Solo 1000 to make major depending on your oal.

[Mark R]

I've been running Clays in .40 for years. It works great for 40 minor loads in Glocks that have a short OAL. If you shoot Clays in 40 major, you better be loading them long for use in a Para-Ordanance, STI, or other pistol that will accept a longer OAL. Clays and major with short OAL is not good.

In the past I was loading 40 major with short OAL in my Para and after a couple of case head separations, I decided short 40 major was not a good thing. Clays in major 40 with long OAL are very soft shooting... alot softer than Titegroup, WSF, or WST. WSF was close, but way too dirty.

Here are my Clays loads:

Glock 35 with Lone wolf Barrel (Minor)

2.6 grains Clays

Moly 185 bullet

WSP primers

1.130" OAL

134 PF

Para P16 (major)

12 lb wolf recoil spring

4.0 grains Clays

Moly 185 bullet

WSP primers

1.180 OAL

170 PF

Glock Major Load with Solo 1000:

Glock 35 with Lone wolf Barrel (Major)

12 lb wolf recoil spring

4.2 grains Solo 1000

Moly 185 bullet

WSP primers

1.130" OAL

170 PF

[Cy Soto]

N320 smells good too!

The smell of N320 is an acquired taste (kinda like the smell of Hoppe's)!

You would probably be ranging from 4.7 to 5.1 on Solo 1000 to make major depending on your oal.

This may also depend on the particular lot of Solo 1000 and the hardness of the bullets that you are using. In my case (with lot number 1877) it only takes me 4.5gr of S1000 to make 172PF out of a 5" barrel (185gr moly bullets & 1.185" OAL). I would probably start at 4.3gr with 175gr bare lead bullets and work up from there.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Cy Soto