USPSA & Marketing

[MBneACP]

Hi all;

After 2002 SHOT, I'm gong to be speaking to the USPSA Board of Directors on marketing issues for the sport. The situation is--am assuming most of your  know this--USPSA is in a slow, but steady, membership decline. Retention of members and even clubs is hurting, and new members aren't coming on board fast enough to offset the losses.

QUESTION: What's broken?

I have my own ideas, but I respect the opinions and ideas of the people on Brian's forums (where I've lurked for ages).

NEXT QUESTION: How can we fix what's broken?

A lot of my ideas come from Malcolm Gladwell's theories on how epidemics spread in small societies, and I would recommend his book, THE TIPPING POINT, to all of you. To use his terminology, USPSA is no longer "sticky," the shooters can take it or leave it. IDPA and cowboy are both sticky, making more of a connection between the sports and the shooters. An analogy that I've used is the difference between a 5K run and a triathlon. Except for a small, elite group of runners, a 5K run is more of a take-it-or-leave-it proposition; a triathlon requires a commitment, usually long-term. Triathlons are sticky; 5K runs aren't.

Thoughts?

Michael Bane

[EricW]

First off, people need to know what IPSC/USPSA actually is.  Right now, virtually all of the information about IPSC is spread word of mouth, and what people are saying is really nasty for the most part:  

"You can't compete, so don't bother."

"You need a $5000 gun to be in the running."

"It's only for elite shooters."

"It's dangerous."

"A beginning shooter can't have any fun."

etc.

I was SO intimidated by all of this that I sat on the fence for YEARS.  I'll bet that's a pretty common feeling/perception too.    I just felt like: "Why even bother showing up?  Where do I fit in?"

If I were King, my first mission would be an outreach program to get out GOOD propaganda and lots of it.  Make professionally produced videos.  Show them at the GSSF matches, gun shows, amenable public events and show people what it's REALLY all about.  Use top shooters as ambassadors of the sport.   Break down that psychological barrier of alienation.  Make new shooters feel welcome.  i.e. "We just can't wait for you to come out and shoot with us!!!"

IPSC/USPSA's propaganda machine needs to dispel the myth of the sour grapes contingent - first and foremost.  

To make it "sticky" it needs to be perceived as fun on game day.  When you're shooting on a squad with a bunch of crabby old farts who won't even tape, pick up a piece of brass, much less speak to you that's NOT fun.  The culture needs to change.  That's where internal propaganda needs to kick in.

My $.02,

E

Additonal thoughts:

Revamp the website.  Check out:  http://www.hkasu.org.hk/  for a killer shooting web site.  

Think hip.  Young people don't want to do anything boring or stodgy.  

(Edited by EricW at 1:52 pm on Jan. 9, 2002)

[Carlos]

Eric is on the money. I'd like to add: never mind the videos, ask if you can show up at the end of a cowboy shoot and ask if you can put on a demonstration stage.  It could also be a GSSF shoot, NRA smallbore, highpower, or silohuete shoot, bowling pin shoot, trap shoot, turkey shoot - anything involving firearms of any kind.  

Then - this is critical - stay after the demo to interact - in person - with interested spectators.  Bring along a gun you will let them handle in the safe area - consider letting them shoot your open gun with a red dot (imagine hearing "so, THATS how that thing works!"). Bring along a Glock or Taurus 92 or revolver to explain that anyone with a handgun, 3 mags and a $15 holster can compete.

It would not hurt some clubs - especially dying ones - to rearrange their schedules so as not to conflict with the major players in town - likely the cowboy crowd - then, your demonstration might be more welcome.

Finally, let me relate what factors appear to be killing IPSC in Maryland.  In MD, they require all shooters to go through a mandatory new shooter indoctrination - local IPSC chapter policy.  Will there be one at the next match? Just try finding out - and I wish you luck as you will need it.  These seminars are sporadic an all taught by one person. No seminar? You can't shoot. Not exactly welcoming to new shooters. This 1st time seminar hurdle has kept my brother from trying out USPSA for more than 1/2 a year.

To further sour the welcome, the Maryland crowd does not seem 1/2 as friendly as either the Virginia folks (Black creek or Blackwater and NRA range) or Pennsylvania (York IWLA). At York, I had a guy you might of heard of named Phil Strader as my squad RO - you could not ask for a nicer guy to RO - I nearly had an ejector-fire and blew him up, but he was STILL as friendly as can be. Maybe it takes effort to be friendly - perhaps its the price we need to pay to save our sport.

As for the Maryland shooters, I can't say exactly why, but in general they are just unfriendly. Perhaps its too much competitive attitude by some mediocre shooters.  

To boot, some clubs south of MD have a policy whereby new shooters shoot for free the first time and any USPSA member who brings a new shooter pays 1/2 price to enter - now that is a welcome!

At one of these Virginia clubs, the president and local Master/GM (Alan Jackson) put all the guys he did not recognize on one squad and he was also out on the range with us as our RO - he kept a close eye on us - just as an RO should- and everything was fine. We were safe, instructions were given as needed, and we had a great time. Its a club I would be happy to shoot with again.

We can bring in new shooters, but we have to work at it and consider doing things in a different way than the current dysfunctional method.  Regards, D.

[Bill Schwab]

Carlos,

I don't mean to add to thread drift but here goes anyway...you need to try shooting at the St Charles Club (just South of Waldorf).  Nice folks and Phil shoots there some of the time.  I shot there this season and never took nor heard anything about this mandatory new shooter indoctrination.  I've seen them shoot many new shooters with no problems.  

To anyone else in the MD area I highly recommend the St Charles club: http://www.stcharlessc.com/

Bill

[benos]

Eric,

Excellent post! But, your iconcode needs work.

In defense of the USPSA website - it is basically a monster database. It's not intended to attract new shooters; it is intended to provide members with information. I wonder just how much "attracting" a web site, for a sport like ours, does anyway? And, if I had to set through that "cool" Flash animation every time I went to that site - I'd blow my brains out. Even after you get through the Flash show, you are still greeted to a very "intuitive" web site. You can't even see the cool "spinning target links" until you mouse-over them. I don't think intuitive sites are cool for "mainstream" use. It might be beneficial, however, to have a Cool Newbie Intro/Flash Page on USPSA's home page?

be

[wsm1946]

USPSA needs to work with the ohter shooting sports orgainzations more.  I just got the latest "The Glock Report" that comes to GSSF members.  They gave the USPSA Limited Nationals a THREE page spread (18 total pages in the magazine).  They gave the web site and phone number for USPSA.  GSSF has 50,000 members and only a few matches a year.  I am a life membe of both USPSA and GSSF and I think lots of GSSFers would like Production Dividion.  

[EricW]

Brian,

Ugh!  I knew I wouldn't be clear.  My fubar...

I didn't necessarily mean that USPSA should put up all the animations.  (We shouldn't go cutsie pie.)  It was more the concept and polish that I was thinking about.  It's the sense that you go to the website and your first impression is: "Wow!  This is cool!"  Maybe the execution leaves something (OK, a lot) to be desired, but the look and the feel have a lot of merit.  

A professional marketing/graphic/internet design strategy could give USPSA that sense of being something big.  Maybe if we try to look big, we will become big. People want that sense of being part of something greater than themselves. Sometimes psychology is as important as substance.

Eric

P.S.   Thanks for fixing my post!

[benos]

Eric,

I'm with you. So, what would be a good suggestion for our very own IPSC website? It would be possible to have a cool index page, WITH a "skip the intro" link, and then advise user/members to bookmark the following page.

be

[Shooter Grrl]

I'm with you on the website - so much so that I sent the Office an email VOLUNTEERING to revamp the entire thing for free... but alas, I never got a response :-(

And that there, IMHO, is the one of the problems with our organization.  Everyone holds their own duties/responsbilities/likes close regardless of whether its good for the org or not.

I've seen this from the Office, Directors, Club Presidents, Section Coordinators... regular shooters even!  For some strange reason, they've attached "prestige" to stuff that's not prestigous, but is critical to running an efficient organization.

I've got personal war stories about GIVING a computer to a club, setting up scorekeeping at the match and the resulting broohaha that made the MD quit because I was "infringing" on his territory and the Statistician that yelled at me because I was infringing on his!  Both over the same GIFT of a working computer so they could do scores at the match.

I have more points to cover, but need to get back to work now :-)

[EricW]

Brian,

That's exactly what I'm thinking.   Mandatory into pages are obnoxious, no question.  Or, maybe they could do the groovier stuff under an "About IPSC" or "What is IPSC?" button in one of the upper corners - where the newbie could click and get a dose of piping hot, IPSC goodness.

The regular homepage could still use some of that Hong Kong feel.  Then, all the good info & databases could just be one page under "shiny" one.

One idea:

                   HomePage (shinier, but same info)

                  -----------------------------------------------------

                           |                     |                         |            |

              About IPSC         Meat and Potatoes          Forms       News

           (glows in dark)      (databases, etc.)    

[Bill]

Michael,

OK, I'll try to give my opinions without sounding like a whiner. I am a former USPSA member (A-4429) who now shoots IDPA. I was A class in open & limited when I let my membership lapse. All the local clubs switched over to IDPA in 1996-1998. I have been to 5 or 6 USPSA Nationals from 1987 to 1995. I am now Master in 3 divisions in IDPA and Expert in the 4th.

I guess match design is the biggest problem from my point of view. When hi-cap mags came along the matches took more rounds from each shooting position. It started with Devel 8 rd. mags. Limited was a try to solve the problem but it also became a hi-cap division. I think one of the draws to IDPA is because you can be competitive with a stock gun & 3 ten round mags. I haven't been to a USPSA match in 5 years so it might be better now. Shooters want to have fun without spending a bundle on a gun. I know there is L-10, Production etc, but - - - - better stage design would certainly solve a lot of problems.

Also, I think there might be a problem with the us vs. them in NROI. I have seen stages at the Nationals that were designed to DQ as many shooters as possible. (no, I was never DQ'ed) RO's should be shooters not bureaucrats.

Now this Street Gun Nationals sounds like fun. That is almost enough to make me want to sign up and shoot my S&W model 10 that I have been shooting in IDPA.

I have no beef with IPSC or USPSA & would still be happily shooting USPSA if something better (in my opinion) had not come along.

Good luck,

Bill Nesbitt

[mike4045]

I shoot all sports and enjoy them. I am thinking of going to the street gun nats this year. It is catering to the lim10, prod and rev. guys. I wanted to go to the lim nats, but  they don't have much of a showing for prod. I hope this helps increase participation. I have several friends who go to IDPA shoots with me, bt are intimidated by the open guys. My wife falls into this category also.

Much more friendly stage design would also be a step in the right direction. I shot a stage a few months back that called for 43-45 rounds. I had to borrow mags to shoot it. To top it off you could only engage certain targets from the hallway and had to be in the room to shoot others. If I wanted to dance I would do that. Several shooters had a lot of trouble  with  the stage. Eventually it was thrown out. I don't shoot much at that range because they always have a stage that caters to open and hi cap guns. One shooter doesn't hurt but I am sure that I am not the only one.

Mike4045

[38supPat]

I think we do it to ourselves. We need to be more positive about what we do and say. We are guilty ourselves about whining about course design (hi round count) yet nobody steps forward to try to design matches with lower round count stages (but more 'relevent' or fun). We cry about expensive guns, but reletively speaking thats minor. If you total up the costs of shooting matches over the life period of a gun (say for arguements sake about four years which is close to how often I change) even a 3 thousand dollar gun works out to 750 a year...I spend more than that in bullets powder primers and brass per year (which if you

want to improve is where you really must spend the money) not to mention match fees, club membership, ipsc membership, gas, hotel, batteries (for timer etc)  and everything else that is the same cost regardless ofwhat gun you have (and I know some good shooters who have been shooting the same gun for about 8 years...if you want to redo the math for that).

And yet now that we have a production class, do we see anyone promoting it?...there was huge promotion for limited, because it was SUPPOSED to be lower cost..which has proved false...and stop the equipment race...also proven false. (Limited 10 will also fall pray to this..I know this because thats how it is up here...by National Law we already have Limited 10..thats all our mags can legally hold...but I don't recall the last singlestack gun I saw being worked on for IPSC...in fact I have had a singlestack frame for sale for about four years...nobody will buy it because they all want to build on hicap frames...which is how it will be down in the US..people will still build STI/SVI/Para/Caspian Limited guns...with 10 round mags. And don't expect stage round counts to change...it didn't here either) But now with a true low cost alternative nobody seem to promote it. I have been to several matches where guys with production class guns shot as limited / standard because noone told them there was a production class at all.. So do we really want a low cost class or are we just kidding ourselves...we have a qualfication course up here that is required to be taken prior to being allowed to compete in ipsc...no it doesn't seem to discourage people..if anything the opposite is true...but most of the shooters who take the course seem to be buying full kits before trying it...Para Limited P-16-40 with trigger job, better sights and Magwell, and full Safariland/Bianchi/CR belt , holster and mag pouches. So do we really care about cost or it just meaningless whining.

I think the base problem is IPSC has become confusing and boring..mostly because we caved into the whiners, the decline started when the separate divisions started, infighting between Open and Limited classes ensued..."That course of fire is too Open friendly", "Open guns cost to much (same $ now for the most part), or are fragile/unreliable"(depite the fact that its all the same parts eg an Open STI/SVI vs a Limited STI/SVI has all the same stuff except comp and optics), "Limited/Standard rules change country to country" (holster position/ box ) etc.

Go back to one division. If that means Limited rules guns only...fine...or Open rules only..fine.

Enforce the IPSC guideline for match set up...three speed shoots (9 rounds or less) to  two mediums (16 or less rounds) to one field course (32 rounds or less)

Set a minimum distance for targets BAB on  a whole field course of close targets gets boring...make it challenging again.

But most of all I think we need to stop being negative about our own sport and go out and promote it, show people how much fun it is, what a great group of people can be found at each match. Make it so that new and old shooters alike want to hang out at the matches. Don't discourage them with negative talk. Encourage them by helping them out if they are new, take them under your wing and show them what its all about. Be positive.

If you don't like high round count matches..set up your own, make them fun.

If you like your division, try to be the best at it...but don't insult, complain, bitch, or whine about another. When I watch rally racing, you don't see the production class guys whining about the cars the Open class guys are running or the fact that they can't keep up with those times...they race their own race in their own division. Limited competes with Limited with the same level of chllenge on a level playing field...you are not in direct competition with open...same goes for Production/Limited 10/Open.

We all need to get along, support each other and promote the sport.

Thats my rant

Pat

(Edited by Pat Harrison at 8:13 pm on Jan. 9, 2002)

[Rob Boudrie]

I can add some perspective on the USPSA web page

since I created and maintain it.  The emphasis of the

page has been on two things - "data" and "speed."

The page includes numerous data management functions:

<ul>

<li>Classifiers

<li>Major match listings, updated nearly continuously

<li>Self-service posting of major match results

to the page - each major match can ask for an

individual password and use an integrated EzWinScore

feature to upload results for immediate posting.

<li>Automatic re-direction of membership prospects to local contacts

<li>Database driven local club info lookup

<li>Database driven links to club pages

<li>Personalized match report (for results

submitted using the new EzWinScore upload

file)

<li>On line membership signup

<li>On line USPSA Store

<li>With more projects in the works

</ul>

You'll notice that "flash animation", "fancy graphics",

etc. was not on this list.  

<p>That does not mean it

has to be that way forever.  If someone wants to work

on a "new generation" web page with me, and has

strength in the areas of "flashiness", I'd be interested

in talking to you.  Keep in mind, however, that

whatever we do has to be fast enough to serve

users on standard speed dialup lines (ie, 28K, sometimes even less).

[Guest nmchenry]

As a female shooter who started about a year and a half ago and is not a natural I feel new shooters should be able to be "coached" for awhile (how many matches???).  It is pretty frustrating to forget a mag change or not see the target that is standing there right in front of you.  Of course you are not going to win since you are new but you want to feel you shot the stage the way it was suppose to have been shot and if you forgot something like a mag change then you lost it all in comparing yourself to others.  I never thought about it but maybe new shooters should be assigned a "mentor" for their first match.  I also think if a club is going to have 3 or 4 stages at least one should be something not too overwhelming to a new shooter.  One thing my club is good about doing is complementing new shooters.  Although most new shooters shoot slow many are very accurate and we comment on that or whatever else we can comment on.  Also, I went to my first match that was not local and was thrilled when there was a prize table and even lowly me got a nice prize worth about 2/3rds of my entry fee.  I think the emphasis should be on shooting for fun regardless of the name of the game.

[38supPat]

I think nm has a good point..the only thing I would add is that the mentors should be experienced shooters...I have seen guys try to help and either make matters worse because they were not competitive themselves so they miis stuff but don't care..or I have seen those with too much ego try to mentor new shooters, and either talk down  to the newbie, or spend the whole match explaining that they did x on a stage 'cuz they are so good thats how its done. I saw one guiy have his poor kid in tears because even though the kid had his own plan..and not a bad one either..he absolutely refused to let the kid try it that ay...'cuz thats not how its done. If you are going to mentor, make suggestions, help out so that the small stuff is not forgotten...but let them have fun and experiment if they want to.

Pat

[Shooter Grrl]

I believe USPSA's growth problem is directly related to the structure of the organization and the inability of the Board of Director's to IMPLEMENT changes.

If you look over the meeting minutes, there's plenty of discussion and hemhawing and even some GREAT ideas - but not one of them have been put into place.

The Board has been discussing Marketing since June 2000 and to date, they're STILL DISCUSSING.  If any "real world" board took that long to make a decision, their company would be out of business!  And people wonder why we're dying?

Here's my thoughts on specific, speedy changes that can be made NOW to help increase our growth:

1.  Take the decision out of the Board of Director's hands.  This is an operational decision and should be made by those that handle operations.

2.  Revise the web page to make it more INQUIRY friendly.   Not flash, but a reorg so that the information is easy to find - first thing should be an intro to who we are and what we do - then links to the nuts and bolts.

3.  IMPLEMENT the club rewards program that Mike Martin introduced in 2000.  

4.  Evaluate and revamp the entire org from the top down.  Most people that hold positions treat the org like a club, not an ORG!  THIS ONE IS KEY!  We need internal marketing long before we need external marketing!  If our front line clubs understand the value (they don't now!) they'll be much better able to communicate that value to potential new members.

Ask anyone you see this weekend at a match "What are the benefits of being a USPSA member?"  And don't be surprised if all they can think of is Front Sight.

[Rob Boudrie]

In discussion of professional marketing, please don't

forget that both proposals ask that USPSA spend a

substantial chunk of our net worth, and operate in the

negative, to fund them.  Dave Thomas (USPSA Exec

Office Manager) is acting reasonably and responsibly

when he does not spend our savings to hire a

consultant at an annual fee exceeding the salary

of any USPSA staff member (including Dave). This

does not mean that hireing a marketeer is a bad

idea - but we need to be convinced that we will

get a positive roi.

[BigDave]

Good point Rob.  

One of the biggest problems I see, and this acutually goes to the marketing issue, is that Action Shooting (IPSC, IDPA, Bianchi, Second Chance, ICORE, etc.) are largely, what I call, "undergound sports".  Mostly, unless you know someone, who knows someone, who knows someone you've never heard of the sports.  I don't understand why (I am speaking in reference to Indiana only) why the local clubs don't print off some cheapo flyers and post them at the local gunshops, sporting goods stores, indoor gun ranges, bait & tackle shops, etc. to get the word out.  It doesn't have to be flashy, something like "Hey You!!!  Gota Gun?  Come play with us!!!"   Hell, USPSA covers the broadest range of the handguns out there now with L10 and Production.  All the IDPA boys can come play and win.  Just look at the dude who won Production at the Nationals.  He is mainly a GSSF and IDPA guy, and he had his way with Angus.  

I think the marketing issue should be a 'Grass Roots' sort of deal, starting at the club level, not HQ.

(sorry if what I said was covered by other posts. I admit that I am lazy, and didn't read them fully for content)

[Shooter Grrl]

---

This does not mean that hireing a marketeer is a bad

idea - but we need to be convinced that we will get a positive roi.

---

Marketing is not tangible enough to determine a true ROI.  As a Board, you decide, yes we need it, or you decide you don't need it.  If its needed, pay for it.  If its not needed, spend the money on something else.  But taking 18 months to make that decision is just plain wrong.

And why is the company making the proposal asking our opinion?  How come the Board doesn't ask us these questions?

[Rob Boudrie]

While it's not possible to figure out ROI precisely,

we must ask if the marketing will increase CLUB

and INDIVIDUAL memberships.

<p>

IDPA has eaten much potential growth from

USPSA.  It's not much of a jump to conclude that

some of the 200 or so IDPA clubs would be USPSA

affiliates if IDPA did not exist.  I do not believe

that many of these IDPA clubs do now know about

USPSA - what are the other reasons they choose

IDPA over USPSA?  Let's address those for a start.

<p>

IDPA offers a low infrastructure, low overhead,

way for clubs to offer practical shooting matches. This

can be particularly attractive to clubs without lots

of "old timers" who are interested in traveling to

matches throughout the country, etc.  Remember,

many people shoot what is offered at their local

club and don't direclty choose USPSA vs. IDPA.  If

get get more clubs, that will bring in members.

[EricW]

You go ShooterGrrl!  You hit it!

The problem with committees is that not one of them in the history of the world, ever took a risk.  The only safe thing to do is nothing.  If USPSA's Board keeps on doing nothing, USPSA will become nothing.  

In my short time in USPSA, two things have become pretty obvious:

1.  Mike Voigt has a vision for the future

2.  USPSA's Board doesn't

Let Mike Voigt delegate the duties to "doers" and let's get on with it.

E

[Shooter Grrl]

---

Quote: from Rob Boudrie on 10:03 am on Jan. 10, 2002

While it's not possible to figure out ROI precisely,

we must ask if the marketing will increase CLUB

and INDIVIDUAL memberships.

---

I honestly think this is the wrong question.  Marketing WILL increase membership.  The question should be, can the clubs HANDLE or even WANT increased membership.

As for IDPA, of course they offer low cost and easy - they're using USPSA infrastructure.  They took our rulebook, course designs, and even at some clubs, our range time and range equipment.  If I was Queen of USPSA, I'd be suing IDPA for "copyright" infringement.  And once they were done and gone, I'd make our Production Division "IDPA".

[MBneACP]

Wow!

This is an EXCELLENT discussion, and enormously helpful to both me and I hope to the other USPSA BOD members playing along.

To ShooterGrrl, I'm not much of a company; I'm only an individual. I also realize that marketing is the scariest of all topics, because it is impossible to provide a true ROI projection. What successes I've had for NSSF and USA Shooting--and I've been very lucky!--are because I've found a point where there's leverage and pushed there. Bu the uncertainty factor is always--when i started working for both NSSF and USA Shooters, the respective heads of those organizations looked me in the eye and asked me one question. "Will your plan work?" My answer was the same in both case--"I don't know." I thought they'd work, or I'd have never suggested them. But, in truth, I've been wrong before. Once the machine starts running, though, everything is speed and flexibility [brian...one of my favorites Emerson quotes: "When skating over thin ice, our salvation is in our speed"]. No battle plan ever survives first encounter with the enemy.

I'm starting to see a couple of pressure points emerging here:

• Relationships with other organizations

• The Street Nationals

I also believe USPSA's relationship with the gun magazines is a pressure point.

By all means, keep talking!

Thanks...

MB

[cpty1]

Exactly Ron.  Case in point.  I shoot IPDA and USPSA and enjoy both.  A nearby range I am a member of has "action matches" once a month that have their own unique rules, usually a combination of both IDPA and IPSC.  This local range action match drew 40 to 50 shooters last month, generally more, or much more than IDPA or USPSA matches offered at ranges also local to the area.  It's interesting that as I looked at entries at the action match, only one or two names of the 50 have I ever seen at an IDPA or IPSC match.  Those are definitely local shooters.  They don't care what you call it, they just want to shoot.  On a similar note, only 3 or 4 people in the north Atlanta area routinely shoot both IDPA and USPSA.  I don't understand that.   To most people it's one or the other, but definitely not both.  Maybe it's a finance thing.  If you look at membership dues alone, $30 for USPSA, ~$30 for IDPA, ~$25 for GSSF, whatever for cowboy, single stack assoc, membership,  range fees, guns, gear, reloading components, etc. after a while it's kind of overwhelming.