How fast to shoot on the move?

[jmorris]

We have all seen the folks that shoot on the move and take baby steps while shooting then run to the next position. I have also seen how people seem to “rise to the occasion” when shooting difficult targets that do not remain visible for very long. Meshing the two, it seems like forcing people to shoot while moving fast might be a good idea to try on a stage. So the question is how fast in feet per second would be a good starting point?

[Merlin Orr]

Doesn't the time clock take care of this adequately? Shoot slow and it reflects on your score.....

[jmorris]

It sure does but I am talking about the folks that say “I could never do that” and when you force them too they finally get the picture.

Kind of like when I built an evil TX star with nonthreats counter rotating behind and only one person in the entire match missed a single plate.

I was looking for an idea on a max acceptable speed for everyone.

[Merlin Orr]

About a normal walking speed...? Perhaps a little slower. Have a moving vision blocker with all shots taken required to be in front of it.... Set whatever speed you want.

[Ahab]

I noticed something recently when shooting a USPSA match - I shoot much faster "on the move" at USPSA than I do when I'm shooting IDPA. This isn't to make an IDPA vs. USPSA comment, but rather a comparison that I've noticed. When I thought about it, the reason I move slower in IDPA is I'm concerned about overrunning the cover that I'm headed towards, whereas in USPSA I don't care about cover. That means I tend to move faster in USPSA while getting the same quality of hits that I'm getting while moving slower in IDPA.

A sight picture doesn't change - your brain knows a good sight picture when it sees it, so the speed that you're moving at in theory anyway shouldn't matter. What I'm working on lately is training myself to be able to move at USPSA speed in IDPA without worrying about overrunning my cover position.

[Chris iliff]

I would like to see the definition of "shooting on the move". Seems people have a different idea of that concept. I wish I could see a montage of such footage by the top GM's. I am shooting and moving at the lower "A" level. But, lately I have been thinking about this. I don't think it is the dead run like some people think. I think it is a lot slower than the average C/B would guess.

I agree with MERLIN ORR, normal walking speed or a little slower.

I know what you are saying tho, I just don't know how you force it out of a competitor. Most instances, and I have had a few, are spur of the moment, absolutely no brain involvement pavlovian responses. When it happens it suprises us. It's magical too, huh!

I could see a long hallway, maybe out of barrels, step target, step target, step target, maybe alternating targets left and right. If the targets are hard to see, then you'll get step, set, shoot, step, set, shoot, the whole length. It's a tuff one to come up with, keep us informed.

[mikegot38]

We have all seen the folks that shoot on the move and take baby steps while shooting then run to the next position. I have also seen how people seem to rise to the occasion when shooting difficult targets that do not remain visible for very long. Meshing the two, it seems like forcing people to shoot while moving fast might be a good idea to try on a stage. So the question is how fast in feet per second would be a good starting point?

Move as fast as you can and still shoot down 0s on the target and without breaking cover. The IDPA Masters get the shots off so fast when getting to cover that they have neutralized them before they break cover.

Edited August 9, 2010 by mikegot38

[jmorris]

I just don't know how you force it out of a competitor.

Move as fast as you can and still shoot down 0s on the target and without breaking cover. The IDPA Masters get the shots off so fast when getting to cover that they have neutralized them before they break cover.

I already have the idea to force fast movement thus the question but I also fit into the master shooter category. I was looking for an idea of what would be reasonable to ask of say a MM or NV without making it impossible.

[Merlin Orr]

NV & MM shooters often mis when shooting static targets....

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I think there is too many variables to give a correct speed. The angle of the shot compared to your body angle is one. If the target is right in front of you then you will be able to shoot it faster. Most GM's I've seen can hit the targets easily at a quick walking pace. Me on the other hand dead slow works Thanks, Eric

[shooterbenedetto]

As fast as you can hit the A zone!! start walking.

[Duane Thomas]

This is the IDPA forum. We don't have A-zones.

[Jadeslade]

Duane-don't you ever sleep?

[Duane Thomas]

Occasionally.

[Jadeslade]

Got me!

[Flexmoney]

Interesting idea. I'd love to see how it might be built.

[CocoBolo]

This can be reduced down to a simple mathmatical formula. Taking the shooters age multiplied by the number of rounds fired in competition divided by the number of IDPA matches shot times the distance in meters to the target in question and called F of X.

Honestly I've only shot a few IDPA matches and I'd have to agree with Mr. Orr that the time clock takes care of the incentive to move faster while that Zero Zone takes care of the incentive to not move beyond ones ability. There seems to be some variance in what SO's consider moving but when you are speaking of MM and Novice I think some madatory or penalized movement speed is only going to server to discourage those shooters.

In a real world senario nothing happens at a walk excpept the creeping up for a suprise, you run for cover.

[jmorris]

Interesting idea. I'd love to see how it might be built.

I was thinking about either having the shooter required to engage targets in front of a running man target set up up range (maybe using it as cover) or have a timed device making the stage more or less a par time stage.

I am not sure how to set it up to be fair to everyone. I am inclined to think that cant be done but it might still be worth giving it a shot next week.

Here is my portable running man, it has 4 different speed settings, its on #2 in the video.

Edited August 9, 2010 by jmorris

[Flexmoney]

Hmmm...moving cover. Like being behind a tank/car.

What about a break-away line (between the shooter and the runner) with the runner back at the shooter position?

[Jane]

I am not sure how to set it up to be fair to everyone.

As a "paper" sharpshooter (I do better at the classifier than at scenario stages), may I offer the opinion that not all stages have to be "fair" to everyone.

For example, IDPA encourages "occasional shots" out to 35 yards. A novice with a Glock 23 isn't going to do well with those targets.

So be it.

I see nothing wrong with some stages where master shooters will find a challenge and other folks are going to have to raise their level or else really suck, as long as such a stage is safe for people to shoot regardless of their skill level and preferably isn't a procedural trap.

Edited to add:

The above comments are a knee-jerk generalization in which I am referring to shooting challenges.

I do agree that as far as mobility is required (a necessary minimum running speed, getting up off a knee to run, etc.) that thinking of shooters with physical limitations is definitely necessary.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Jane

[Merlin Orr]

I like Jane's thought process on this... Balanced...

As to being fair to all shooters... The scenario represents something that could conceivable happen in "the real world - gag." and having multiple threats to engage with a handgun is sure as hell - not fair....

Build it to where "Most" shooters find it a challenge. Some will cry - Some may yawn, but it will be different and, if for that reason alone, FUN!

[Filishooter]

How about shooting from a treadmill set to run at 3 mph? Can it be done safely?

[Jane]

And then...

for a reality check of shooting on the move and moving targets... Sevigny shooting the 2007 Georgia IDPA state match:

[Loves2Shoot]

I'll raise my hand and say I don't get why you would want to force people to move at a specific speed. From watching lots of newer shooters shoot the IDPA classifier, they move way faster than they can shooter the targets accurately and they run out of room before making all the shots. The more experienced shooters are the ones who move slow enough to make the hits and fast enough to cover the distance completely. The end result would be the same as self regulating the speed on the score card, but just a bigger gap in time.

[jmorris]

I touched on it in post #3. Trying to get some shooters out of their comfort zone if you will and let them see what they can really do. I was hoping for something closer to an eye opener than a butt kicker.

I have been to many matches that “dumb down” stages, so faster shooters have to slow to a crawl. I was thinking just the opposite would better serve the group. Just kicking around an idea.