AzShooter Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Tonight at our local match there was a stage that required going kneeling three times from three different possitions. Start in box A, shoot from a very low barrel, knock down two pepper poppers and fire two shots at each of two USPSA targets. Move to the left side of the table holding the barrel and shoot from under a stick at a pepper popper and one papper target. Move the the right side of the table and shoot a pepper popper and another papper target. Movement was 6 ft. Since I wear leg braces and have a most difficult time to kneel and to get up, how many penalties should be given for standing, moving to the required positions and fireing while standing. If I go kneeling it takes about 20 seconds to get down and I need two people to help me get up. Leg problem plus I'm fat and over 300 lbs. I've lost over 100 lbs and am trying to loose more but for now I still have a long way to go. I thought there was a rule that if a shooter could not perform the required task there was a maximum amount of penalties to be given but not one for each shot fired. I asked the match director and he said one penalty for each shot fired. There were two stages tonight that required going kneeling. Second stage I just took the penalties. First stage I followed the writeup and had guys help me along the way to get from each position. Then I needed them to help me get up. Does UPSPA have a procedure to help handicapped people? How many penalties should be given? You make the call please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stage 3 Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 This covers it 10.2.10 Special penalty: A competitor unable to fully execute any part of a course of fire due to incapacity or injury may, prior to making his attempt at the course of fire, request that the Range Master apply a penalty in lieu of the stated course requirement. 10.2.10.1 Exception – In a weak hand/strong hand stage, a competitor who has physical use of only one hand may use the same hand for both weak and strong without penalty. 10.2.10.2 If the request is approved by the Range Master, a minimum of one procedural penalty, up to a maximum penalty of 20% of the competitor’s points “as shot” (rounded up to the nearest whole number), will be deducted from the competitor’s score. For example, if 100 points are available in the course of fire and the competitor actually scores 90 points, the special penalty is a deduction of 18 points. The Range Master may waive any or all procedural penalties in respect of a competitor who has a significant physical disability prior to the competitor making his attempt at the course of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck223 Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Unless the USPSA rulebook have varied from the IPSC rulebook on this point, memory suggests the maximum penalty is 20% of the total points for the stage, or a lesser penalty if the match director feels the accomodation isn't that great an advantage. The key points if I remember correctly is the request for an accomodation must be presented to the MD, and approved prior to shooting the stage. This is an individual request, and not a blanket exemption for all who magicly develop a sore knee/back, etc. The range RO/CRO will probably be the first person asked about an accomodation, but they really need to keep thier mouths shut and consult with the MD prior to offering an oppinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck223 Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Ah, Stage 3 has mad skills,but it looks like my memory isn't that bad. The key thing for me is that we do encourage all to come out and play. The truth is folks with a physical limitation will never win a match, but we still want everyone to come out and play. I'm also heavier than I should be, and as a result my knees are not as good as they should be. IPSC is a semi physical sport, and being able to run, stop, jump etc will always be a factor in the end results. However, the sport is a shooting sport at it's heart, and on the whole the courses of fire need to reflect shooting problems to be solved, not steeplechases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Bond Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 This covers it 10.2.10 Special penalty: A competitor unable to fully execute any part of a course of fire due to incapacity or injury may, prior to making his attempt at the course of fire, request that the Range Master apply a penalty in lieu of the stated course requirement. 10.2.10.1 Exception – In a weak hand/strong hand stage, a competitor who has physical use of only one hand may use the same hand for both weak and strong without penalty. 10.2.10.2 If the request is approved by the Range Master, a minimum of one procedural penalty, up to a maximum penalty of 20% of the competitor’s points “as shot” (rounded up to the nearest whole number), will be deducted from the competitor’s score. For example, if 100 points are available in the course of fire and the competitor actually scores 90 points, the special penalty is a deduction of 18 points. The Range Master may waive any or all procedural penalties in respect of a competitor who has a significant physical disability prior to the competitor making his attempt at the course of fire. Each and every member of USPSA receives a rule book. Folks if you do not carry these in your range bags, you have nothing in the way of ammunition to dispell the beliefs of people who have not read it for some time. I am not saying the MD in this situation was a bad guy. He was likely making the call based on what he recalled was the rule. But times have changed and our rules with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EEH Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 Tonight at our local match there was a stage that required going kneeling three times from three different possitions. Start in box A, shoot from a very low barrel, knock down two pepper poppers and fire two shots at each of two USPSA targets. Move to the left side of the table holding the barrel and shoot from under a stick at a pepper popper and one papper target. Move the the right side of the table and shoot a pepper popper and another papper target. Movement was 6 ft. Since I wear leg braces and have a most difficult time to kneel and to get up, how many penalties should be given for standing, moving to the required positions and fireing while standing. If I go kneeling it takes about 20 seconds to get down and I need two people to help me get up. Leg problem plus I'm fat and over 300 lbs. I've lost over 100 lbs and am trying to loose more but for now I still have a long way to go. I thought there was a rule that if a shooter could not perform the required task there was a maximum amount of penalties to be given but not one for each shot fired. I asked the match director and he said one penalty for each shot fired. There were two stages tonight that required going kneeling. Second stage I just took the penalties. First stage I followed the writeup and had guys help me along the way to get from each position. Then I needed them to help me get up. Does UPSPA have a procedure to help handicapped people? How many penalties should be given? You make the call please. AZSHOOTER-who cares how many penalties you get,,reading your thread I saw you have LOST OVER 100 LBS,congrats,on a job well done,it never gets easy,we always give 10% for any diss,but I am glad to see you are on your way to a healther life keep up the good work,, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
furyalecto Posted August 6, 2010 Share Posted August 6, 2010 (edited) .. Edited August 7, 2010 by furyalecto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom D Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Ah, Stage 3 has mad skills,but it looks like my memory isn't that bad. The truth is folks with a physical limitation will never win a match, I have a room full of trophies that would dispell that. But, because a lot of RM's/ MD's have not delt with that rule it is a very good idea to have your rule book handy to make an argument. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Jones Posted August 7, 2010 Share Posted August 7, 2010 Anyone in an MD capacity should be a current and knowledgeable Range Officer. Failing that, he should have the benefit of someone who does and can act as Range Master. Ultimately, attendance at the next available RO Seminar (even if he has to organize one) is called for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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