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Magnifier behind Aimpoint...anyone running with one?


Jin

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Was wondering if any of you multi-gun shooters are utilizing a magnifier behind an Aimpoint? which magnifier are you using and if you had any feedback; i would appreciate it!

i shot my first three gun match a couple weeks ago with just the aimpoint; the stages didn't stretch out more than 50 yards. but even at 50 i thought some magnification would help a bit for those targets behind cover.

because i already have a aimpoint compm3 2moa, i decided to go with the Larue "po boy" build. i have a couple weekends before the next 3 gun match to try it out at the range. my initial impressions are positive, but i also immediately noticed the extra weight and the short eye relief of the hensoldt magnifier. i have a telescoping stock on my AR, so the eye relief shouldn't be an issue i suppose.

looking forward to trying it out at the next 3 gun match. especially if there are 100 yard+ stages...heh.

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Glad to hear your getting into 3 gun! Fun stuff, huh?

As far as the aimpoint and magnifiers go some people do use them but I wouldn't say it is very common. For the money it cost to buy an aimpoint and a magnifier you can buy a really nice variable power 1-4x scope with illumination.

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A friend of mine has the same setup on his AR. It was previously on loan to me and I used it to beat an awful lot of people with 1x optics at a multi-gun match. Apparently 70 yards at speed is harder for some people than others. I had lots of alphas and the others seemed to have lots of mikes. I'm not sure if the magnification slowed me down any, but it certainly made a 70 yard shot seem like nothing.

Edited by twodownzero
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The Larue "po boy" is great but there are some small issues to be aware of:

• Eye relief is short; it needs to be at the rear of the receiver rail. Running it in front of a backup iron rear sight really compromises the “po boy” eye relief.

• The “po boy” has a focus ring located at the front of the tube; I see many of them mounted with the front of the tube flush with the mount effectively eliminating the ability to adjust the focus.

If you are starting with no optics then investing in 1-4 scope is better than a dot + magnifier. If you already have a dot then a magnifier can offer an expanded capability for less of an investment.

Out.

2011BLDR

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jtischauser,

yes, 3 gun is good fun. gave up motorcycling recently, and don't miss it at all..heh. i totally agree, if i didn't already have the aimpoint already i would have gone for one of those trijicon accupoints. until a couple weeks ago, i didn't know what an accupoint was...but having looked through one, i was thoroughly impressed.

2011BLDR,

as i was test fitting the setup last night, i thought about axing the buis. I think that's what i am going to do before sighting in.

thanks for the heads up about the focus ring on the po boy! i didn't know what the ring was, so i mounted it foward of the rings for good measure.

Edited by Jin
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I have been using a magnifier with an aimpoint for about 8 months now.

I went to it after I started going to matches that had more physical challenges and awkward shooting positions. My limited eye relief variable power optic I was previously using started to exhibit short comings. Most 3 gun matches will never put you in a position to find these limitations because stages are designed by people to be compatible with the equipment they are using. The aimpoint with magnifier is a much more versatile system inside 300 yards than any optic with limited eye relief. The dot does look distorted when magnified, but you get used to it. I find I often don't even use the magnifier unless I am shooting at small targets or farther than 150 yards.

The one downside is if you use a tip to the side mount, you must use a rear sight that is stream lined. A big windage knob will interfere with the charging handle operation. I use the Hahn Precision rear sight to avoid this issue.

A friend is used an EOTech with the .223 BDC reticle and a magnifier, and he can make hits easily out to 500.

Edited by SinistralRifleman
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i shot my first three gun match a couple weeks ago with just the aimpoint; the stages didn't stretch out more than 50 yards. but even at 50 i thought some magnification would help a bit for those targets behind cover.

As a side note, I generally run @ 1X (Meopta) out to about 75-100 yds. At 50 yds, I suspect you will be faster at 1X even with partial targets. For some data on this, the Magpul fellas have a BSA drill (Balance of Speed & Accuracy) that goes from contact distance out to 100 yds, and they said that across their classes they've had students try it all at 1X and with magnification at the longer ranges and on average the students score better running at 1X.

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I run an Aimpoint M3 with a Primary Arms 5x magnifier on a flip mount behind it. I find with close in shots out to 50yds without the magnifier, it works great for me. I can acquire the next target with no problem and fairly fast. With a normal 1-4x scope I have a lot of problems finding the next target. At 100 yds the dot looks like a blob and covers the target using the magnifier. That said I have not had any problems shooting within an 8" ring or shooting a flasher. At 200 yds it still works well with metal or flashers. It would not work with a standard IPSC type target where you would have to put it within the center ring to neutralize. To stay in tactical you can only have 1 optic or an optic and a magnifier. If you are going to shoot much further than 200yds, you need to go to a scope. I definetly recommend this set for short stages and the occasional 100-200 yard shots.

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A friend is used an EOTech with the .223 BDC reticle and a magnifier, and he can make hits easily out to 500.

The 1 MOA dot in the middle is a big advantage at distance.

One thing that does look like an issue is that the magnifier would appear to block the left eye when it is flipped out

Nevermind, it looks like it flips to the right.

Edited by Graham Smith
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Give some serious consideration to the new Vortex VMX3 3x magnifier. It's not expensive, better specs than the Hensdolt (sp?) and fits in the LaRue mount.

It has better eye relief and is 3x instead of 2.5x.

i just recently became introduced to this product (after my hensoldt purchase...dang). so far it sounds promising from initial feedback people have been reporting. i'll keep an eye out for a used one down the line. is it me or does it look more bulkly than the hensoldt?

vmx3_mounted_l-t.jpg

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A friend is used an EOTech with the .223 BDC reticle and a magnifier, and he can make hits easily out to 500.

The 1 MOA dot in the middle is a big advantage at distance.

The 3 dots below it calibrated for 300, 400, 500, are a bigger advantage at those distances. My aimpoint has a 2MOA dot, out to 300 it doesn't make much difference vs the EOTtech, the BDC EOtech is better past 300 because of the aiming reference points.

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I'm not saying you can't use the setup your asking about because the other posters are but look at what the guys (unlike me) use that are winning the major matches use. When I first started I was searching hard for an aimpoint and a magnifyer. I went with what the big boys use. You can always get your money out of an aimpoint, just sell it on the tactical sites.

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jtischauser,

no problem bud! i totally understand that the cost of my aimpoint setup ($800) could have been used for a kick ass scope (+rings) with far better optical clarity and variable zoom.

right now i am just in the beginning stage of having fun with 3-gun, using some equipment that I wanted in my gun safe cache anyway.

when i gain more experience an am looking for that extra competative edge; i'll be sure to look for some upgrades.

for example i only have one shotgun that i recently, purchased and it's a 870P (pump). i knew semi-autos rule in 3-gun, but i always wanted an 870P for home defense.

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jtischauser,

no problem bud! i totally understand that the cost of my aimpoint setup ($800) could have been used for a kick ass scope (+rings) with far better optical clarity and variable zoom.

right now i am just in the beginning stage of having fun with 3-gun, using some equipment that I wanted in my gun safe cache anyway.

when i gain more experience an am looking for that extra competative edge; i'll be sure to look for some upgrades.

for example i only have one shotgun that i recently, purchased and it's a 870P (pump). i knew semi-autos rule in 3-gun, but i always wanted an 870P for home defense.

Jin,

check out this video series my guys produced...it is 4 parts and will answer a lot of your questions/comments. I hope you find it useful

Part 1 Here

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GorillaTactical,

hello; thanks for bringing me attention to you informative videos! i'm sure you have helped many with thier setups.

I like what i am seeing/reading regarding the millet 1-4x optic. good bang for the buck; it may very well be my next major 3-gun purchase. i am not looking forward to paying $200 for the larue mount; but it is looks to be the quality option for swapping out the millet and my aimpoint quickly with acceptable repeatability.

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you might want to look at the Buris PEPR mount $80), if you buy the millet from SWFA.com you can actually get the mount and scope as a package.

I dont thing anything is better than a Larue, but if the price tag stings a little (it did for me) you might want to look at the Burris mount

While the Burris is not a QD type mount, it does stay close to zero when remived/remounted. The JP mount also does not cost a ton of money (I think like $110-120)and is great too

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I'm new in 3 gun/multigun and am not nearly as good as many of the folks here. I enjoy shooting, but seem to lean more towards the shtf training and so far have tried to keep my carbines set up for multiple uses from matches, to training for personal protection, to coyote hunting.

I run an Aimpoint with a 3x mag on a flip to side mount. I really like the set up. I don't seem to use the magnifier until I'm out past 100-150 yards depending on the run. If I'm moving a lot I just use the Aimpoint.

I did just get a Millett DMS-1 to test and try out. I have very little time on it(about 600 rounds), but so far I can see why folks like them. For me, it is not nearly as easy to use with both eyes open (up close on 1x) as the Aimpoint. I plan to continue with the DMS-1 to see if I can get better with it with practice. Even if I can't ever get where I like it like an Aimpoint, I can see where it would be nice on a firearm set up for hunting.

From what I've seen, there are not nearly as many of those using optics like an Aimpoint as compared to those using a 1-4.

To the original question.... I very much like my set up with an Aimpoint and 3x magnifier on the flip to side mount.

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I run an Aimpoint M3 with a Primary Arms 5x magnifier on a flip mount behind it. I find with close in shots out to 50yds without the magnifier, it works great for me. I can acquire the next target with no problem and fairly fast. With a normal 1-4x scope I have a lot of problems finding the next target. At 100 yds the dot looks like a blob and covers the target using the magnifier. That said I have not had any problems shooting within an 8" ring or shooting a flasher. At 200 yds it still works well with metal or flashers. It would not work with a standard IPSC type target where you would have to put it within the center ring to neutralize. To stay in tactical you can only have 1 optic or an optic and a magnifier. If you are going to shoot much further than 200yds, you need to go to a scope. I definetly recommend this set for short stages and the occasional 100-200 yard shots.

I just switched from this setup, which I have shot for about 6 months to a 1x4/24 Counter Sniper scope. I have looked at several different brands and found this one to work best for me. The optical clarity is very good and the field of vision is excellent. It seems to pull in a lot of light. I have no problems acquiring the next target @ close or longer ranges. We shot out to 180 yards this weekend and it worked great. It has a single cross hair reticle and I sighted it in at 25yds and it held true to 200 yards. It is about 4 inches high at 100 yds shooting 75gr Wolf Match ammo out of a 1/7 twist DDF 16" barrel. I know this is not one of the accepted brands, but I read good reviews on Midway and so far it is well worth the money.

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I run an Aimpoint with a 3x mag on a flip to side mount. I really like the set up. I don't seem to use the magnifier until I'm out past 100-150 yards depending on the run. If I'm moving a lot I just use the Aimpoint.

yes, i am a big fan of the aimpoint myself.

was able to spend a little bit of time with it this weekend. love the flip mount...magnification of the hensoldt definately helped a bit when i was shooting at a 100 yard target. i really wanted to zero it at 200 yards, but it was blazing hot so i didn't make it out that far.

match director throws in some steel at 175 yards, and that was the primary purpose of adding the magnifier. i think it will serve the purpose just fine.

bm_2071.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...
I decided to go with the Larue "po boy" build.

Where on earth did you find one? I've been looking for one and Larue sold out of those quite a while back.

Also I've been looking for a flip to side mount and Larue seems to have the market locked up on these. Burris had one for a while but dropped it in favor of the Larue. Samson has one but it bolts to the magnifier which won't work with a Burris or Vortex magnifier. Anyone know of a flip mount that doesn't cost near $150?

Edited by Graham Smith
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update: I zeroed the red dot at 200 this past weekend. I was satisfied with my grouping...but i must say i had a hard time seeing the target and the red dot clearly...due to my astigmatism (which my contacts do not correct 100%). from what i been reading...red dot + magnifier is not the way to go if your eyes aren't great.

just so happens my match director announced 200 yard targets at this weekend's multi-gun match. i'll report back afterwards!

Where on earth did you find one? I've been looking for one and Larue sold out of those quite a while back.

Also I've been looking for a flip to side mount and Larue seems to have the market locked up on these. Burris had one for a while but dropped it in favor of the Larue. Samson has one but it bolts to the magnifier which won't work with a Burris or Vortex magnifier. Anyone know of a flip mount that doesn't cost near $150?

Graham,

i picked mine up from ebay for ~ $70.

there is some dude selling the raw optic which includes the tank finding reticle for $21 shipped on ebay. but, you can't tell what eyepiece you are going to get:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260630145917

there are others advertising their hendsolts on ebay as Larue Poor boy, and they go for $40 on up. But i have a feeling most of these auctions are hendsolts that did not pass through Larue's hands; Larue purged the optic with nitrogen after they were done removing the tank reticle.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190429039303

I overpaid for mine though; but i did so because the individual stated it was converted by larue. i gave him more credit than the others because the 30mm spacer looked like the one that larue used in thier kit. and he didn't have multiple feedbacks like he was cranking out the magnifier for profit.

but yeah, i love the larue flip mount...but the price is killer.

Edited by Jin
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Where on earth did you find one? I've been looking for one and Larue sold out of those quite a while back.

Also I've been looking for a flip to side mount and Larue seems to have the market locked up on these. Burris had one for a while but dropped it in favor of the Larue. Samson has one but it bolts to the magnifier which won't work with a Burris or Vortex magnifier. Anyone know of a flip mount that doesn't cost near $150?

These people have a good mount that works with quite a few magnifiers, I use it with a Burris. It is even dearer than the Larue though.

DM optics

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  • 4 weeks later...

Update: so I shot with the hensoldt magnifier at a match with 150 & 200 yard steel plates, and didn't have much luck. I had a hard time seeing the steel against the tan dirt backstop. The combinaton of my eyes not being the best (even with contacts), lower magnificaton, short eye relief, and level of optical quality looking though both devices...yielded poor results. I almost didn't finish the 60 second par stage...pretty embarrassing.

Sold the hensoldt the following week, and was shopping for an aimpoint magnifier when I saw that red-dot-scopes.com had TR24G's on sale for $644 shipped. So I ended up ordering the TR24G instead..heh. I didn't want to take the gamble with the aimpoint magnifier without having looked through it at various distances. however, during the last couple matches I was able to check out a fellow 3 gunner's TR24R...and was super impressed by it.

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