Rule Modification

[George]

That means I can shoot limited with my 1x4 burris on 1 power & promise not to turn the dial.

We will be allowing rifles with low powered variable scopes to compete in Limited at the 2010 Bay Area Rifle Championship if the adjustment ring is tack welded (not glued or taped) into the 1x setting LOL

[Sterling White]

That is one way to deal with a variable scope. A little harsh however effective but the owners of expesive scopes are not going to be happy!

Conflict and debate could be avoided if the rule is written in plain english - a true 1x and no variable scopes allowed. Not a 1.1 or 1.5 power.

[George]

That is one way to deal with a variable scope. A little harsh however effective but the owners of expesive scopes are not going to be happy!

I am joking of course. I would accept a mechanical crimp in place of a tack weld

[Dan Sierpina]

That is one way to deal with a variable scope. A little harsh however effective but the owners of expesive scopes are not going to be happy!

I am joking of course. I would accept a mechanical crimp in place of a tack weld

Why not just use Loctite 290? It wicks into the joint, and is pretty tough stuff.

[George]

That is one way to deal with a variable scope. A little harsh however effective but the owners of expesive scopes are not going to be happy!

I am joking of course. I would accept a mechanical crimp in place of a tack weld

Why not just use Loctite 290? It wicks into the joint, and is pretty tough stuff.

Yeah, I guess red loctite would be acceptable as long as I can see a fully cured ring it of all the way around the adjustment knob, LOL

[Dan Sierpina]

Loctite 290 is green, and is used for assembled parts. It just sucks into the gap. I started using it on overtravel screws on 1911's years ago, that way the shooter couldn't "fix" it.

[Chuck Anderson]

We will be allowing rifles with low powered variable scopes to compete in Limited at the 2010 Bay Area Rifle Championship if the adjustment ring is tack welded (not glued or taped) into the 1x setting LOL

Not if you are running this as a USPSA match. All kidding aside, tackwelded, loctited, superglued or not. The rule is non magnification scopes, not magnified scopes turned down. A 1-4 set to 1 is not allowed. This is not a rule the match director can fudge on.

[wgnoyes]

Updated July 2010 multigun rules are available now at http://uspsa.org/rules/2010MultiGunRules.pdf

[Alaskapopo]

Updated July 2010 multigun rules are available now at http://uspsa.org/rules/2010MultiGunRules.pdf

On the shotgun rules it says 8 for limited and tactical and 10 for open. Is that 10 total or 10 in the mag 1 in the chamber?

Pat

[George]

We will be allowing rifles with low powered variable scopes to compete in Limited at the 2010 Bay Area Rifle Championship if the adjustment ring is tack welded (not glued or taped) into the 1x setting LOL

Not if you are running this as a USPSA match. All kidding aside, tackwelded, loctited, superglued or not. The rule is non magnification scopes, not magnified scopes turned down. A 1-4 set to 1 is not allowed. This is not a rule the match director can fudge on.

As I mentioned earlier I post this comment in jest

As far as Loctite goes, I only recognize the red version as equal to or better than semi-permanent, LOL

But, as we are only a Level 1 match, if somebody does tack weld or loctite their LPV in place, the very least I can do for that poor soul is to allow them to compete for prize. Again, I say this in the spirit of levity as I think the whole situation with this new ruling is some pretty funny shjt

BTW, I am gonna turn 55 later this year, my eyes are not really there anymore and I like shooting irons a lot. I welcome anyone with a fixed 1x optic to come out and play in Limited/Standard

[Chuck Anderson]

I know you were kidding, but for people trying to make sense of the new rules we were really drifting a bit into a long section on which loc-tite will be allowed (none because the scope won't be allowed). I know I'd fell awful crappy if some new guy showed up at your (or any) match with a loc-tited Millet DMS-1. And whether it's a level 1 or not, Division rules are Division rules, there are no Level 1 exemptions for that.

[Stlhead]

There seems to be an omission under limited shotgun rules. Should there not be an 8 in the tube notation? Thanks!

[Alaskapopo]

There seems to be an omission under limited shotgun rules. Should there not be an 8 in the tube notation? Thanks!

Yes same for Open at 10 (assuming it means 10 in the mag) and 8 in tactical (in mag)

Can someone please clarify. I have shot the last 2 three gun matches with 11 rounds at the start in my Saiga and want to make sure that I was not cheating.

Pat

[Stlhead]

I read it as 10 in the magazine for open (no change). This means a start of 11 in the gun. But I am not a very smart fellow, and have been wrong many times before.

[Alaskapopo]

I read it as 10 in the magazine for open (no change). This means a start of 11 in the gun. But I am not a very smart fellow, and have been wrong many times before.

Cool thanks for replying. That is what I was hoping. I wish they would ditch the magazine capacity max in Open though.

Pat

[Graham Smith]

Being new to multi-gun, I have debated on which division I wanted to shoot. My eyesight makes iron sights tough to use but I've had pretty good luck in practice with an inexpensive red-dot. But a red-dot alone in Tactical seemed to be a disadvantage so I had decided on a 1-4x scope.

With the addition of red-dots to Limited, I now have more options open to me and I can look at Limited again.

[Sterling White]

Maybe this should be the start of a new topic and its not intended to be a hijack of this thread. No hate mail pleaze!

How hard would it be to change the shotgun verbage in limited to read 8+1 at the start and then add a short brief statement similiar to that used for IPSC Mod Div:

The gun with any extended magazine tube fitted must fit into a rectangular shaped boxed which is open on one long side. The internal dimension of this box must be 1320mm long (with a tolerance of : +1mm, -0mm). The gun must not be artificially compressed in any way during the test solely for the purpose to fit in the box. Revolving tubes, or any other configuration involving more than one magazine tube, are not permitted. No optics. No ports or compensators.

edited to include no ports or compensators

Edited August 2, 2010 by Sterling White

[wgnoyes]

(You only cited the length. What are the height and width of the opening?)

Wouldn't be hard to add the written statement at all. Getting clubs to build what is basically described as a 40 inch long plywood case for long guns and then toting that heavy thing around would be another issue.

[Sterling White]

(You only cited the length. What are the height and width of the opening?)

Wouldn't be hard to add the written statement at all. Getting clubs to build what is basically described as a 40 inch long plywood case for long guns and then toting that heavy thing around would be another issue.

Hi Bill, good question. To answer this I took a look at the dimensions (x & y (no z)) of a couple of commonly used semi-auto shotguns. For example, the FNH-SLP is 7.9" or appx. 201mm tall. The Benelli w/o the pistol grip was similiar. The pistol grips adds approximetely 1-2 more inches. However, since pistol grips are allowed in division I would propose that the shorter side of the rectangular box be sufficient to allow pistol grips. And height (z coordinate) should not be an issue as most 3 gun shotguns typically are running a bolt handle. The rationale behind the proposal may have two positive outcomes, including: an allignment with the IPSC Modification Rule; and standardization between USPSA multi-gun matches and non-USPSA 3 Gun matches, ie, RM3G...etc.

[Chuck Anderson]

There seems to be an omission under limited shotgun rules. Should there not be an 8 in the tube notation? Thanks!

For some reason the boxes got shifted a bit. Read it as Magazine Round Count Limit, the Magazine got bumped up a line for some reason. Everything is the same as before. 8/10 in the mag, chamber is up to you, same as in all other USPSA Divisons that have capacity limits.

[Chuck Anderson]

(You only cited the length. What are the height and width of the opening?)

Wouldn't be hard to add the written statement at all. Getting clubs to build what is basically described as a 40 inch long plywood case for long guns and then toting that heavy thing around would be another issue.

Hi Bill, good question. To answer this I took a look at the dimensions (x & y (no z)) of a couple of commonly used semi-auto shotguns. For example, the FNH-SLP is 7.9" or appx. 201mm tall. The Benelli w/o the pistol grip was similiar. The pistol grips adds approximetely 1-2 more inches. However, since pistol grips are allowed in division I would propose that the shorter side of the rectangular box be sufficient to allow pistol grips. And height (z coordinate) should not be an issue as most 3 gun shotguns typically are running a bolt handle. The rationale behind the proposal may have two positive outcomes, including: an allignment with the IPSC Modification Rule; and standardization between USPSA multi-gun matches and non-USPSA 3 Gun matches, ie, RM3G...etc.

I'm not familiar with any IMGA/Outlaw matches that have length restrictions on the shotgun anymore. I know SOF and a couple others used to have a 22" restriction on the SG but I haven't seen that for years. IPSC is currently looking to do away with Modified so I don't think it would be wise to make our rules the same as a soon defunct division.

What benefit would be derived from this? As it stands now, if I have a Remington 11-87 with a 26" barrel, I can put an appropriate extension on and shoot Limited or Tactical. I sacrifice a bit of manueverability but it makes it a lot easier to get someone involved with the SG they have. They can upgrade later or just cut the barrel off.

I guess I just don't see an advantage to further restricting this division.

[Sterling White]

I guess I just don't see an advantage to further restricting this division.

Just the opposite. A SG which fits in the box will hold 12 or 13 rounds. The gun would start 8+1 before the buzzer. The benefit occurs where the competitor has to take a few steps before engaging targets. Loading the few extra rounds on the move can be beneficial in some circumstances. And it removes the benefit of certain guns over others which are capable of holding a tenth round on the carrier. Not that I would ever worry about that...

[Stlhead]

I was led to understand that the magazine limitation was the max number that could be in the magazine after the start signal, not the number of rounds loaded at the start signal. If that where the case I would have seen smarter folks than me game it that way. I think that shooting more than 9 shots before reloading is (and should still be) a party foul if the rules say 8+1.

[abn-rgr]

its not a question of whether a unmagnified optic is better or worse than irons for shooting, its about not needing "perfect"????? vision to shoot well. and bringing the unmagnified class the participation to keep it alive and thriving, and hopefully increase participation. Now we just need the outlaw matches to accept it.

trapr

O3GC is on board. We are still leaving HM as a pure Iron Sighted division.....for now. Im going to have Sandra try and track who uses irons and who uses electronic devices. Im curious as to the outcome, but i am confident the iron sight shooters will prevail.

[wgnoyes]

Looks like the multigun rules were changed again on August 18th. In quickly comparing this set to the previous one, it appears additional specifications in the division appendices now allow for n+1 loading for a loaded start as relates to magazine/tube capacity.