Sterling White Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 This division wouldn't target new shooters anymore than production division does though. Isn't the objective of production division in USPSA to allow shooters to compete with off the shelf equipment? Dyno you just answered your own question! By providing the 1x optic shooter a place to play the opportunities for growth just became huge. Yes...go to the local gun shop and get a rifle with a dot or reticle with no magnification. You now have a place within the multigun world to be competitive. Fear the ironside! Proof who will be better and drama to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscott Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Does this mean time plus scoring is no longer an option or that it is no longer on a trial basis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Time Plus is allowed for all levels of multi-gun competition now. All of the Multi Gun rules are still on a provisional basis that has been extended to December 31, 2010. Basically MultiGun is still a trial basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 My edge is a 4x lens built in my shooting glasses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Time Plus is allowed for all levels of multi-gun competition now. All of the Multi Gun rules are still on a provisional basis that has been extended to December 31, 2010. Basically MultiGun is still a trial basis. I wish they'd worded that differently, then, because it reads to me like they're dropping Time+ entirely, and I already bitched out my area director over that (even though he voted against all of this!). Remove references to Time Plus scoring method being used on a trial basis for LI and LII matches for the 2009 season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted July 28, 2010 Share Posted July 28, 2010 Time Plus is allowed for all levels of multi-gun competition now. All of the Multi Gun rules are still on a provisional basis that has been extended to December 31, 2010. Basically MultiGun is still a trial basis. I wish they'd worded that differently, then, because it reads to me like they're dropping Time+ entirely, and I already bitched out my area director over that (even though he voted against all of this!). Remove references to Time Plus scoring method being used on a trial basis for LI and LII matches for the 2009 season. The update is coming and will make everything crystal clear. The way the rules were presented for the vote it was very clear what was being voted on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatekeeper Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) And ironically, that guy actually still is. I've seen it suggested that USPSA should have a production 3-gun division. Production Pistol Iron Sighted Rifle Pump Shotgun Maybe the folks that still shoot irons could fit in this. I like this idea but would rather see shooters able to use Production or Single Stack pistol but use the SS capacity rules and scoring (10 rds for minor, 8rds scored major) So the "new guy" would have a chance to compete (and still be competitive) with the pistol they already own. but then I'm the "new guy", so what do I know Edited July 29, 2010 by Gatekeeper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bore Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Who will be shooting irons? kurt m, trapr s, ted p, bruce p, craig u, patrick k, ??????????????? Who will be shooting 1x optic? benny h, ?????????? go benny go! Come on Sterling why don't you give it another shot. I can think of one time you shot irons and took home the trophy.... Jump back into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Who will be shooting irons? kurt m, trapr s, ted p, bruce p, craig u, patrick k, ??????????????? Who will be shooting 1x optic? benny h, ?????????? go benny go! I didn't even get honorable mention. Man, I thought we were tight Sterling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) Big Bore - After shooting the OKC Shotgun match earlier this year, Mr Brew Meister Miller and yours truly played irons at the range for several hours. The temptation to go again is there...O is it there and the equipment is ready! And the rule change even makes it better. Mike - As for you going irons...I just don't know!!! Something tells me you might have a little "feel sorry" going on and may be inclined to jump on the Team Triangle and go glass...hahaha spelling edit Edited July 29, 2010 by Sterling White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) "Telling the new guy with a red dot to compete in Tactical against the guy with the $1600.00 Swarovski is a bit like telling him he's competing against the guy with the full custom 2011 with his Ruger P85." And ironically, that guy actually still is. I've seen it suggested that USPSA should have a production 3-gun division. Production Pistol Iron Sighted Rifle Pump Shotgun Maybe the folks that still shoot irons could fit in this. In my opinion your idea is great. Production would be a boon to new shooters who are cash strapped. Pat Edited July 29, 2010 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) Oops. Stupid phone. Edited July 29, 2010 by mike_pinto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Big Bore - After shooting the OKC Shotgun match earlier this year, Mr Brew Meister Miller and yours truly played irons at the range for several hours. The temptation to go again is there...O is it there and the equipment is ready! And the rule change even makes it better. Mike - As for you going irons...I just don't know!!! Something tells me you might have a little "feel sorry" going on and may be inclined to jump on the Team Triangle and go glass...hahaha spelling edit I have always shot irons. As with most things, I am opposite most people. A lot of folks cant see irons, I can't use a damn scope. How's that for irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 (edited) Benny - I tried but it appears that Mike doesn't have any pitty in there for you! Now that I have been whooped upon Let's try this again! Who will be shooting irons? big boar, mike p, kurt m, trapr s, ted p, bruce p, craig u, patrick k, ??????????????? Who will be shooting 1x optic besides mr. benny h.? Edited July 29, 2010 by Sterling White Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 Hahaha. See you next week my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 "Telling the new guy with a red dot to compete in Tactical against the guy with the $1600.00 Swarovski is a bit like telling him he's competing against the guy with the full custom 2011 with his Ruger P85." And ironically, that guy actually still is. I've seen it suggested that USPSA should have a production 3-gun division. Production Pistol Iron Sighted Rifle Pump Shotgun Maybe the folks that still shoot irons could fit in this. In my opinion your idea is great. Production would be a boon to new shooters who are cash strapped. Pat A new shooter that only has a Ruger P89, 870, and AK47 can already compete in limited or Tac Optic. Will this new shooter be competitive? Is any new shooter going to be competitive against guys that have been not only competing for 10 years, but winning matches for 10 years? We don't need more divisions or equipment restrictions. It may give somebody a warm fuzzy feeling, but it doesn't change the outcome of the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 A new shooter that only has a Ruger P89, 870, and AK47 can already compete in limited or Tac Optic. Will this new shooter be competitive? Is any new shooter going to be competitive against guys that have been not only competing for 10 years, but winning matches for 10 years? Respectfully, could that same argument have also been used against creating pistol Production 10 years ago, as related to Limited as it was then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sterling White Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 My edge is a 4x lens built in my shooting glasses. Hmmmmmm.....GAMER! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 29, 2010 Share Posted July 29, 2010 "Telling the new guy with a red dot to compete in Tactical against the guy with the $1600.00 Swarovski is a bit like telling him he's competing against the guy with the full custom 2011 with his Ruger P85." And ironically, that guy actually still is. I've seen it suggested that USPSA should have a production 3-gun division. Production Pistol Iron Sighted Rifle Pump Shotgun Maybe the folks that still shoot irons could fit in this. In my opinion your idea is great. Production would be a boon to new shooters who are cash strapped. Pat A new shooter that only has a Ruger P89, 870, and AK47 can already compete in limited or Tac Optic. Will this new shooter be competitive? Is any new shooter going to be competitive against guys that have been not only competing for 10 years, but winning matches for 10 years? We don't need more divisions or equipment restrictions. It may give somebody a warm fuzzy feeling, but it doesn't change the outcome of the match. I realize you have a lot more time in the game than me and maybe I am missing something. But I feel that the more divisions the better. pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Sierpina Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I realize you have a lot more time in the game than me and maybe I am missing something. But I feel that the more divisions the better. pat Pat, A division for every combination of guns is much like the current policy of "everyone gets a trophy" that is prevelent in so many school systems, and other places in life. Why not have no divisions? Like in the old days? Everyone plays with the tools they like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 (edited) My opposition to additional divisions is I think that skill level should seperate competitors, not equipment. There is a need for divisions, but I think what we have now is a good mix. There are very definitive difference between the gear of one division and any of the others. What would a production divison provide for 3 gun? About 20% or better already shoot a Glock in either Tac Irons or Tac Optics, so are we going to ban the Glock from production because it's competitive? What would a production AR be? No adjustable gas, iron sights? Those win a lot of Tac Irons matches already. Require the production rifle to be anything but the AR? Many HM competitors already would like to see the pump shotgun requirement eliminated from our divison. (HM is what I usually shoot.) It doesn't make much sense to require any other divisions to use it. True, it's a little cheaper to set up than a reliable autoloader, but the pump shotgun would not be the one disadvantage that prevents a new shooter from winning a match. Edit- Good question, Bill. I would say the same question did come up w/ Production pistol. I just see too many differences in MG and pistol matches to make much of a comparison. Edited July 30, 2010 by Bryan 45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 I realize you have a lot more time in the game than me and maybe I am missing something. But I feel that the more divisions the better. pat Pat, A division for every combination of guns is much like the current policy of "everyone gets a trophy" that is prevelent in so many school systems, and other places in life. Why not have no divisions? Like in the old days? Everyone plays with the tools they like. I don't think everyone needs a trophy. But I think that including more divisions for people with different guns will bring more shooters out. Just my opinion and I am new to the game. I also see where you are coming from. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 Awesome!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgnoyes Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 ... The update is coming and will make everything crystal clear. The way the rules were presented for the vote it was very clear what was being voted on. Very good, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted July 30, 2010 Share Posted July 30, 2010 In my opinion your idea is great. Production would be a boon to new shooters who are cash strapped. Pat I'd love to take credit for it but to be fair it was Braxton1's idea - it would also be minor power factor friendly (Something that isn't in the existing divisions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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