Complaints from the Neighbors

[TwoShot]

I am pistol range captain at our local range/club which puts me on the board. I received an email this evening from one of our officers about a complaint he received from one of our neighbors. Our range has been in it's present location for nearly 50 years. That didn't stop a developer from putting in a high dollar development nearby within a half mile. It seems that one night last week someone fired 10 "very loud" shots at 9:15 p.m. The neighbors claim they had never heard anything like this before and people were coming out of their homes to investigate. Someone called the city police who refused to respond as it was out of their jurisdiction. No one called the proper authority, County Sheriff, and they were "to afraid" to go to the club and get a license number. One of our officers feels it was a .50 BMG round and that we need to ban them from the club. There may be a safety issue with the .50 and our earthen backstops but I have no personal experience with the round. We will get on a slippery slope if we start banning one caliber or gun over another. As our rules stand now if it was a member who possessed the firearm legally , they did nothing wrong. The round is not currently banned according to club rules and shooting is permitted at the club from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. If the residents near the club get the idea that if they bitch enough we will cave in, I foresee problems with Trap after dark or anything else “they” determine is not acceptable. I dealt with this sort of thing a lot in my work career only it was people complaining about the sights, sounds and SMELLS of farming. That didn't stop them from buying a house downwind of a livestock farm. The club has been there for a long time, I doubt that that is the first .50 BMG round fired there. This neighbor should be mad at the Realtor who sold her the house, not us. Alas, we do not live in a perfect world. Has anyone dealt with such issues at your ranges>

[Jadeslade]

Needs a lawyer. You need to get along with them. They need to get along with you. Prospective purchaser's need to know. You as a board should not change anything based on hearsay, personal feelings, and poor information. Any senior diplomat at the State Department should be able to advise you on this. Good luck.

[CSEMARTIN]

Has your club set aside money for legal fees?

[Flexmoney]

Last week we got together on a back porch and were blasting off left-over fireworks from Independence Day.

I wouldn't assume the loud noises came from your range.

I don't think any of our local noise ordnances kick in until after 10pm.

[Merlin Orr]

Our range, was nearly shut down after being in the same location for many years due to a new, out of the city limits, housing development. Entire rifle range shut down and direction changed. Doubled the berm height and no BMG shooting. This was after considerable legal consultations with continuous advise from the NRA. The gist of the advise received was the range will not win over the developers period.

Good luck.

[Nik Habicht]

The gist of the advise received was the range will not win over the developers period.

Good luck.

Oddly enough, Merlin's right -- unless the range is in New Jersey.....

NJ has a strong range protection law....

[Paul B]

There are really two potential problems.

One: bullets are getting out of the range. This is a serious problem and requires lawyers, NRA and probably a lot of construction.

Two: The neighbors just don't like the noise from a Sunday Morning match waking them up at 9:00AM. This may require a lawyer, but a lot may depend on whether Indiana has a Range Protection Act such as in Ohio.

I must confess I am an Indiana resident but I do not know as I live on the border and only belong to Ohio clubs. I belong to 3 clubs. Two of them have had bullets leave the range and had to go through the gauntlet but are still operating. The third only had a few noise complaints and citing the Range Protection Act pretty much silenced these so far. Of course it is always good to get along with neighbors, but sometimes it is nice to have some legislative or legal protection.

In any case if it goes further, be sure to bring the Developer into the legal festivities so they can pay for non-disclosure of the range presence.

[Graham Smith]

The range in Southern Chester, PA has been in the same location for years and years - back to when there was nothing much around but farms. In fact, it is the actual name is the Southern Chester County Sportsmen's and Farmers' Association. But as the area has transitioned from farms to residential, the problems with the neighbors and the County have grown. I don't know how much they have spent on lawyers, but over the years they have greatly reduced the hours, put up shooting sheds that baffle sound, put in a video surveillance system at every shooting location, and are now putting up even more baffles on the long rifle range. And be aware that the issue of noise will ultimately pale in comparison to the issue of someone putting a round over a berm.

I'm afraid that what it comes down to the fact that ranges need good lawyers and friends in high places. Few clubs have the political clout it takes to overrule the "will of the people". It's the County that makes the rules and that's you are going to have to deal with. Get a lawyer and get pro-active.

Bottom line is, you can't beat urban sprawl. You can fight it off, but it will ultimately devour you. It's like being pecked to death by ducks.

Your mileage may vary.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Graham Smith

[High Lord Gomer]

From: http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/2004/title14/ar22/ch31.5.html

IC 14-22-31.5-6

Liability relating to noise

Sec. 6. A person who owns, operates, or uses a shooting range is not liable in any civil or criminal matter relating to noise or noise pollution that results from the normal operation or use of the shooting range if the shooting range complies with a law or an ordinance that applied to the shooting range and its operation at the time of the construction or initial operation of the shooting range, if such a law or ordinance was in existence at the time of the construction or initial operation of the shooting range.

[Genghis]

My advice is:

1. Consult a lawyer, and at a minimum, get some advice. NRA has a lawyer referral list. Find out if Indiana has a range protection law. Find out what the nuisance laws are - in general it's harder for a person to complain when he or she moved to the nuisance, rather than having the nuisance arise after they moved there. Of course that would apply more to a noise issue than to bullets falling from the sky.

2. Contact your state NRA affiliate. They can be a BIG help.

3. If your range is not incorporated, you should strongly consider doing so. See (1).

4. Contact NRA and consider arranging for a range expert to come and look at your layout. I think they only charge for travel and lodging. NRA also publishes a range construction manual that costs $50 or so and is about four inches thick. This will help you run a safe facility, and show that you were doing your homework. You may want to have your lawyer hire this person, so he or she is a "consulting expert." The lawyer can tell you why this is important.

5. Investigate the occurrence, and consider changing your policies if it seems advisable. This may include limiting hours for shooting, or adding other safety rules.

I am a lawyer and active with NRA and my state affiliate. I am not admitted to practice in Indiana, so this is not legal advice. If you want more help (such as finding a lawyer there), contact me by e-mail or PM.

Sean

[Patrick Sweeney]

My club went through this, and partly due to our predicament and efforts, a new range protection law was passed in Michigan back in 1995.

I tend to take a rather hard line on this subject. As stated above, you need to find out what the legal protections, if any exist for you. Is there State law protecting ranges? What exactly are the noise ordnances in your area?

Get a copy of the NRA Range Manual. Read it. Make sure that your range designs and club rules are at least as good as the recommendations in the manual. If not, pre-emptively stop shooting on that range, and build it up. You're the experts, the neighbors and the city administrators aren't. If/When asked, simply say "We checked with the authority on the subject, the NRA. When we found we were in need of change, we stopped on our own, and changed it at our own expense."

I also think a no-compromise approach is the only option. Do not offer to restrict times, firearms, match schedule, etc. in exchange for complaints going away. They won't. The person you're dealing with may be doing so in good faith, but the truth is, the loudest complainer, the biggest a^%#@We is the one who will drive the process. Make them earn everything they get, if they get anything.

Someone will complain (seen all this) that you're shooting machineguns, that you're practicing with grenades, that bullets are streaming out of the range. (All those were complaints, eventually at our range) Make them prove it.

If someone is a member of your club, and an attorney, ask them to help. Heck, offer them a life membership if they'll take the case.

Through it all, be polite. Don't brag, don't threaten, don't promise, and don't beg. And make sure everyone in the club knows that no-one speaks to the press, or the city, except the designated spokesperson. No one. You only need one yahoo, thinking he's made a bright remark, to screw the whole thing.

[Stumpnav]

Kill them with kindness!! Have a special range day just for folks that live in the development. Have the range looking as good as you can when they show up. Have your friendliest members out there. Get all of your female members out there.

Rather than fight them, get them on your side. Even if you only get a few, it can go a long way to quelling the problems before they make it to you.

[Jeff686]

Kill them with kindness!! Have a special range day just for folks that live in the development. Have the range looking as good as you can when they show up. Have your friendliest members out there. Get all of your female members out there.

Rather than fight them, get them on your side. Even if you only get a few, it can go a long way to quelling the problems before they make it to you.

I agree with this. Make some friends. Give them all free trial memberships. Have a 'demo day'. Make sure to put your best foot forward.

I was most surprised by the comments about 'they were afraid to come to the range'. We all known this is PC nonsense, and the typical reaction of the uneducated. You need to change that perception. Show them that we are mainstream members of the community, not a bunch of rednecks. Recruit the most well spoken and respected members of the club to interact with you neighbors (doctors, lawyers, business men, politicians, LEO).

[CSEMARTIN]

You should talk to Gary Cuttitta (a.k.a. Cheetahs on this forum). His club was under attack by a Golf Club located behind the range. After a lengthy battle all the way to the Michigan Supreme Court, the club lost. The financial burdens were tremendous. If it weren't for the efforts of Gary and Dave Alexander, I believe they would have lost the range. Here is a link to the club: http://www.linwoodbaysportsmans.com/

Gary could provide you with some very valuable insight. It's only a matter of time until you start incurring legal expenses. Be proactive!

I wish you the best.