Field Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 how does it happen? you watch a person fire 2 shots in rapid succession at a standard carboard target, 1 shot scores a nice fat hole right in the A zone while the other shot COMPLETELY misses the target and dissappears off somewhere? do you know how this happens? have you observed other shooters doing this and have you determined what they were doing wrong? have you been a victim of this phenomenon? how did you fix it? FFS ALPHA...MIKE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanderer Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 simple, there is no such thing as a double tap. it happens because you see the sights on target and pull the trigger twice. problem is the second shot is going off while the gun is still in the middle of recoiling. aim shoot, aim shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 It happens to me on the last target of a array. I start moving as I'm firing the second shot. Easy to do, easy to fix by calling every shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 It happens to me on the last target of a array. I start moving as I'm firing the second shot. Easy to do, easy to fix by calling every shot. +1! This past weekend, we shot Nuevo El Presidente, and I shot a great time with good hits, except the mike right before the reload. Reshot it in Lim-10, and forced myself to slow down for the shot before the reload. Scored all hits. My Lim10 time was .75 slower but the hit factor was 12% higher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeFoley Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 Most of us have this happen occasionally when we lose focus and get in a hurry. You saw exactly what you needed on one of the shots. Most of the time it is the first shot that hits the A, then you move out early to do something else like move or transition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 how did you fix it? Do it a lot faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 how does it happen? Easy, gun is pointed somewhere off the target when the 2nd bullet leaves the barrel. How do you avoid it? Wait til the gun is pointed back at thte target. Always seems easier on paper.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSteel Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 I know Alpha Mike well, Charlie Mike's ugly cousin..... He's always blaming me for a poor sight picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 This is something that livefire practice with a timer will help you understand. If I am shooting a platerack slowly, they just go down. As I get comfortable, usually the third string, i start to speed up. Then I throw in the timer and will notice that if I am not watching the sights because I start to think of hurrying, Mr Mike will suddenly make his appearence. It is really common when you are pushing past vision, and start putting thoughts of hurrying into your shooting. This will make almost all of your strategy and training fly out the window. It has taken me a full two years to shoot as fast as I can rather than trying to shoot as fast as I think I should. Dryfire has made my handling skills better. Livefire reminds me to practice what I've learned in drifire. The holes don't lie. JZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 16, 2010 Share Posted July 16, 2010 The fundamentals apply to each shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecichlid Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 For me it is usually my eye movement that screws me up. I get a clear sight picture on the first shot then break the shot, my second sight picture is usually pretty much right where it should be then comes the screw up. My eye movement shifts to the next target before I break the second shot on the first target and as my eyes move my gun moves and I pull the shot off target. I need to slow my butt down and watch the sight lift as the second shot breaks THEN move my bloody eyeballs. Knowing it and doing it are two different things in my head. lol Joe W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Knowing it and doing it are two different things in my head. lol +1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supermoto Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 (edited) I'll get the A/M when I am trying to transition to quickly and not following through on the last shot. I see my dot come back down, and then start moving my eyes before the shot breaks like this Edited July 19, 2010 by Supermoto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero-down Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Poor trigger control w/ bad sight picture can cause this as well. I don't know personally, but this guy I know, who's friend told him, relayed to me that yanking the trigger trying to break the second shot faster can cause this. It can also cause Alpha / Charlie's. Fix - stop rushing and call the shots. No double taps, 2 shots, 2 pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 Lack of visual patience. Using the I-Kam, I saw it clearly on a stage I shot a few months back. If the I-Kam has any true value for training, it was in that regard. I "saw" myself leaving the target before I broke the second shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted July 19, 2010 Share Posted July 19, 2010 The fundamentals apply to each shot. There ye go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecichlid Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I'll get the A/M when I am trying to transition to quickly and not following through on the last shot. I see my dot come back down, and then start moving my eyes before the shot breaks like this Yep, you and I suffer the same issue. I just need to work on it to break that habit. Joe W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted August 10, 2010 Share Posted August 10, 2010 I'll get the A/M when I am trying to transition to quickly and not following through on the last shot. I see my dot come back down, and then start moving my eyes before the shot breaks like this Yep, you and I suffer the same issue. I just need to work on it to break that habit. Yes, and nothing breaks a habit quicker than continuously paying close attention during the action. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 It seems the likely candidates have been mentioned. One is starting to transition before you've finished the last shot...that's usually pretty easy to self-identify. The other seems to come from one of two causes. People will take one sight picture and simply press the trigger twice...the dreaded "double tap". The other cause appears to come from grip issues. The shot breaks and the gun really isn't really well controlled so the front sight goes pretty high and doesn't return quickly, the way it should when things are done properly. The shooter knows the clock is ticking and they need to shoot fast, so they muscle the gun back down to the target (probably subconsciously) and they break the shot but the muzzle goes too far (overswings) and the shot goes low. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecichlid Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 Yep, you and I suffer the same issue. I just need to work on it to break that habit. Yes, and nothing breaks a habit quicker than continuously paying close attention during the action. be Brian, I am working on it. The hardest part for me has been to slow down in order to get the shot off before I move my head, eyes or gun from the target. I can move the gun fast enough but not fast enough to make up for the poor shots, missed targets and all the fun that goes with that. Things are getting better though, my hits are better and the mikes and D hits are going away. Just have to follow the bouncing dot and make sure it bounces twice before I move to the next target. Joe W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 It seems the likely candidates have been mentioned. One is starting to transition before you've finished the last shot...that's usually pretty easy to self-identify. The other seems to come from one of two causes. People willl take one sight picture and simply press the trigger twice...the dreaded "double tap". The other cause appears to come from grip issues. The shot breaks and the gun really isn't really well controlled so the front sight goes pretty high and doesn't return quickly, the way it should when things are done properly. The shooter knows the clock is ticking and they need to shoot fast, so they muscle the gun back down to the target (probably subconsciously) and they break the shot but the muzzle goes too far (overswings) and the shot goes low. R, It all really boils down to what you identified in the last part of your paragraph. If your thoughts are on the clock and not on what you are doing right now, you will miss. If you are putting your attention where it needs to be and your vision is directing the shooting, you can not miss, bad grip, good grip, it won't matter as long as you stay with the shot throughout. You won't leave early or fire a shot early when entering a box if your only purpose is to put the shot on target. Getting the timer out of your head is one of the hardest things in this sport but also one of the most important Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Smith Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 I have a problem of shooting too fast, so the Mike brothers are well known to me. Two weeks ago, the day before a match, I went to the range with 100 rounds and shot them very deliberately. I hung 3 targets and loaded mags with 6 rounds and put two in each target. Started very slow and gradually got faster (but not too fast) till the ammo was gone (didn't take very long). At a small match the next day, I concentrated on doing the same thing at a moderate speed and it helped a lot. The really interesting thing to me was when I reviewed the results, my times were only a little slower than guys ahead of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biloxi23 Posted August 17, 2010 Share Posted August 17, 2010 You guys are amazing. Ya'll (a Southern term)just copletely diagnosed almost everything that I did wrong on Saturday. I was just mototing on, being moderately slow-fast, when I had the brilliant thought "Hey, I got this, I can go faster!" right behind that thought came Apha-Mike, Alpha-Mike followed by Charlie-Mike. Thanks guys, I really did learn something from this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustin Posted August 18, 2010 Share Posted August 18, 2010 A little mantra I like is 1 shot 2 sight pictures. It really makes me think about folllow through and aids in tracking the front sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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