Seating Die Leaves Ring On Nose

[garymac]

I've been a reloader for 8 years on a Lee turret press and a Dillon 550 reloader for 2 weeks. Got it set up and running with no problem and am extremely happy with it. The only problem is the seating die leaves an imprinted circle in lead bullets. I called Dillon and he said that was normal. Now I knew better than that. Then I tried Berrys 230 rn today, and the circle is pressed into those also, although not as deep. I called back, hoping to get another customer service person but didn't. The same answer, "it's normal". Unless you all tell me the same thing I'm not believing it.

Looking at the seating plug, it's easy to understand how it happens. The lip presses into the bullet. Simple. I wonder why they don't make them so they extend out to the inside wall of the die. The only answer I came up with was to take my RCBS die out of the turret and put in there. Presto !! No circle imprint. Now I have to buy another RCBS for the turret unless anyone knows a fix for this.

Thanks in advance,

Gary

[short_round]

The same thing happens with Hornaday 45 ACP dies when loading round nose plated. I know someone who that was also happening to and they said they used a dremel to smooth out the lip on the seating plug and the ring went away.

Personally, I installed my old RCBS seating/crimp die just like you.

[TheOtherErik]

Its normal and is caused by the "vent hole" in the seating stem. If it bothers you that much you can chamfer the radius edge of the hole or switch to jacketed. make sure that you are using the correct side for the bullet profile you are using.

[tyro]

garymac,

Did you check the seating plug inside the die ? It is reversable... one side for flat nose or semi-wadcutters and the other side for roundnose. Maybe you have the plug reversed because when it is set for SWC, the side of the plug is thicker which may leave the ring your talking about.

Tyro

[garymac]

Did you check the seating plug inside the die?

Sure did - the other side is fine for swc's, just a problem with rn's.

[EricW]

This one really needs to be moved into "fuggedabowdit" column. We messed around with beating up bullets once. You have to do some pretty horrific stuff before a meaningful or measurable loss of accuracy. A little imprint on the nose is no problem at all.

[SherlockWV]

garymac - I was going to say (agree) with tyro re: the convertable seating stem. But...after reading your last comment I wonder. I too had this problem and it was the seating stem. I was loading RNs & and had the SWC in place. Once I switched it, no more problems. Then...I was at a USPSA match and was talking to my bullet supplier. A guy we both knew came up and showed us his bullets and sure enough, there was the little dimple. I suggested that he might have the SWC installed but he swore that he didn't. This caused me to pause. By this time I had loaded approx. 3000 rounds through my 550. The one thing that I never did was actually thourghly clean out the seating die. After doing so to my seating die and no problems, I passed this along to my mutual friend. He cleaned his out and latter told me that it was just crammed with lube and after cleaning he too had no problems.

Now...I don't know if this is the answer or not but I would certainly check it. Another consideration that was shared with me was in the bullet itself. My guy had changed the "flux" in his process. This produced bullets with sharper points rather that being true RNs. Now this is way beyond me but I do believe that it is fixable. Suggest weighing out about 50 bullets on a calibrated electronic scale. I did this and found what was supposed to be a 148 gr. RN 9mm had a varible of 146.7 to 152.2. This can effect the OAL of the bullet itself. Don't hold me to this but I started a thread once on Industry Standards for Lead Bullet weights. One response I got back was from a guy who worked for a major bullet manufacture. He said (I think) that a good lead RN bullet will weigh within 1.5 gr of acutal advertised weight. Then... aside from OAL differential is the actual Brinell Hardness of the bullet. If you set up the die with a shorter OAL bullet and the hardness is not consistent plus OAL variance, I would think that you could have a problem. I agree that this is not normal and if you have eliminated all possibilites, I would contact Dillon and get there opinion. Who knows, they may send you a new reversable stem. Good Shooting

[garymac]

Well, thanks for the input. There is no doubt I am using the correct end of the stem, as I said the other end works well for swc's. It sounds like others have the same problem also, so I'll just stick with the RCBS seating die, although I do like the design of the Dillon for cleaning purposes.

As far as contacting Dillon, I was twice told this is normal, and no offer of replacement. All a replacement would do is to give me another paperweight because I believe the problem to be in the design. The way it is made, the edge of the stem is .52 wide and squared, instead of coming out to meet the die inside wall which would eliminate the contact point.

I only use Hornady 230 lead rn and Berry's 230 gn plated so the shape shouldn't be a problem. Could it be possible that they included a stem for a lesser caliber? Looks like a .40 would fit in there just right.

[rhyrlik]

Seating stems almost always leave a ring around the nose of lead bullets. The ring becomes more pronounced with increased case neck tension. It will always be there unless you machine the seating stem to fit the nose profile perfectly.

[garymac]

Seating stems almost always leave a ring around the nose of lead bullets.

Not true - of the three brands I use, only the Dillon does this.

[3quartertime]

This reminds me of my first few thousand rounds reloading. ( Not that long ago!!!)

I really enjoyed making my product look as new and shiny as a factory load. Then I started getting lazy and began just cranking out ammo. My non-shiny's worked as good as the beauties!!!

I would tend to agree with Eric,,,( although I've never tested it myself ) I can't imagine that a small ring would impact the accuracy that much.

[SherlockWV]

Gary mac - I can empathize with you about the "ring". Whether such a thing effects accuracy or not I am sure that you want to produce ammo that at least looks professional and if the die is not supposed to do what it is doing, it does not provide faith in the over all product. Although I agree with those who state that such a dimple will not effect accuracy. (USPSA or IPSEC specific) It just doesn't look good. I can relate with 3QTs opinion on ammo production but yet I have a friend who has over 95,000 rounds though his Glock 22 and he "cases" every load, so it is an individual thing.

I was surprised to hear that it was Dillon who told you that such a condition is normal and...the bullets you are using do not apply to what I wrote about "lead". Question: What caliber are you loading??? If it was mentioned, I missed it. I load .45 & 9mm. Should you happen to load one of those calibers I can measure mine and give you the data. However it is unlike Dillon to provide the wrong product. But....one must realize that we are all human. Should I ever replace my seating dies I am going to go with the Redding. I have used their dies for years with rifle and the engineering is just better. (Then again, that may be a matter of opinion) You did clean our your die, correct?? What is baffling me is that both mine and my friend's die smoothed out in time. i.e. cleaning and correct seating tip. Rhyrlik's statement distantly relates to what I was talking about re: bullet OAL. During my rifle loading days, I could pull 6 Sierra bullets out of the same box and have as much as a 20 thou difference in OAL. That is why I started seating to the Olgive. ( the first place on the bullet that meets the specified diameter from the point. Special tools are needed for this. I am very interested in your situation and would appriciate hearing about your continued efforts to correct this problem. Personally, I cannot see the replacement of the die to another brand as the immediate solution. Good Shooting -JC

[garymac]

Sherlock, I am only loading .45 on the Dillon, and I do all my rifle on the turret. Switching to RCBS cured the problem, and to see why just compare the stems. RCBS's edge of the curved part is very thin and the Dillon is very thick. I just came back from my local gun store and the manager told me he had the same problem. He cured it the same way as I did.

It's not a big deal, and the problem has been corrected by switching dies.

[SherlockWV]

Garymac - Glad you got the situation handled. I am very familiar with both RCBS & Redding Rifle dies and the quality contained therin. I always load my rifle on a single stage Rock Chucker because accuracy is paramout with me. Each completed bullet is especially made to conform to the others.

I am still at a loss as to the "ring/dimple" thing. As I said, I did have this problem but it went away along with the problem my friend had. I can understand what the owner of the store you went to is talking about and I can "see" the difference in "thickness". What is bothering me is that a Company with the reputation like Dillon states that "this is normal". I have a very hard time swallowing this. Interestingly, I have never had the problem on my .45 ACP loads. Only on the 9mm. There are a number of things that I do not like about the Dillon dies, especially the fact that they do not have a "easy to adjust seating stem". I load 9mm for two different pistols and have to change the seating depth each time. As a result, I always have to untighten the primary lock nut then use another wrench to turn in or out. Then...when I finally tighten up the die, it seats an additional 5 - 10 thou. I hope Dillon reads our stuff. be sells Dillon & you really cannot beat their pressses. But one would think that they would produce dies that are at least near the quality of their presses. I will be switching to Redding Dies when affordable.

Again, really glad that you got the situation worked out. Good Shooting -JC