Objective testing of different guns on the clock?

[beltjones]

It occurs to me that choosing a pistol for Production/IDPA is a big guessing game. Will I prefer a Glock or M&P? Will a DA first pull be as bad as I think it will be? These and other questions abound.

I think it would be really helpful to have a new shooters introduction with an opportunity to try different equipment. A way to work it would be to set up a regular Saturday match, and have a side bay set up where people could shoot different pistols on a common course of fire.

One way to set it up would be for everyone to lay out their pistols on a table that is dedicated as a safe area. Then people could cycle through, taking turns trying different guns on a common drill, say a vice presidente on steel from a high ready position. By the end, people would have objective data on how they shoot with different guns, and they would have experience with a pistol that goes beyond simply fondling it in the gun store or shooting it slowly on a static range.

Does anyone do something similar? If not, why not? I for one would love to have the kind of data that this would generate, and I'd be perfectly willing to share my pistols with others in order to get it. I have to assume others would feel the same way.

Any ideas/thoughts/concerns/etc?

[Cy Soto]

When I first began shooting USPSA three years ago I was convinced that finding the perfect gun or adding 50 million upgrades to a firearm was the only way to be able to excel in this sport; I was only focused on having "the right equipment". It did not take me long to figure out that there is much more to Action Shooting than equipment. There is a lot of truth to old saying that this sport is 90% mental.

If you must, you can always go to any competitor on any given weekend and ask them to please let you shoot his/her gun at the end of the match. This is a fun way to try out new guns and see what changes they thought were necessary but, at the end of the day, (and I am echoing Flex here) just pick one gun and practice with it!

[Aglifter]

I think the hard part about new people judging guns by performance - I'm in the "newbie" category - is that, more or less, each time he does an el presidente, etc it will be better than the last.

Now, I do think its invaluable to let people try various new guns, but I don't know that there's really a way around buying one and spending a month or two w. it, to see if it works.

EG, I decided I like Sig P226s. So I bought one, hated the trigger, sent it off to Bruce Gray, and tried it in numerous IDPA matches, and never really improved. To a large extent, that was because I have no clue what I'm doing, but the first time I tried my G17, my scores dramatically increased - they also increased w. my P7, except for the reload/limited capacity problems there.

Now, I finally tried a 2011, and have realized that its the platform for me. So, the rest of the toys - aside from my P7 and my revolvers - will be going away to buy more 2011s...

Edited July 9, 2010 by Aglifter

[twodownzero]

I think the best advice to a new shooter is buy ONE gun and wear it out. It really doesn't matter what it is, although there are some obvious better choices.

[Loves2Shoot]

I think the best advice to a new shooter is buy ONE gun and wear it out. It really doesn't matter what it is, although there are some obvious better choices.

Yes, I would suggest you handle a few of them to see if one jumps out as fitting you better though. Any mainstream production gun with the common tweaks work fine.

I've shot XD, XDM, G22, G35, G17, CZSP01, EAA Match, and Sig 226 on the IDPA classifier for repeatable scores. The times all ended up within a few seconds of each other. The only thing it really proved to me was the guns all work and time differences for SSP and ESP classifications are illogical.

PS. I tried the M&P pro with a upgraded trigger, but didn't bother to shoot the classifier stage as it didn't seem different enough to matter.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Loves2Shoot

[wurm]

Oh just get a Glock and be done with it

We don't have anything like that at the clubs I shoot at but if you show up at a practice then at least half of the guys I shoot with would be happy to lend you gun, holster and most likely ammo to let you try out their stuff. Heck, every time someone touches their trigger I have to hear about how good it is and they practically drag me to the safe zone to poke at it. One of my buddies tried out an M&P last year and ended up with a better time on a stage than he had been getting with his XD. He was sold on it and got one a couple of weeks later.

That being said, twodownzero nailed it. Just buy a guy and shoot the heck out of it. It always takes me a little while with a different platform to get dialed in and learn the nuances of a new trigger. I'm not sure one or two runs with a new platform would really show me what I'm capable of, though I'm always happy to shoot a new gun.

[G-ManBart]

In most cases folks at your local club will let you try anything they have. I can't imagine many clubs not having at least one person who shoots each of the common choices. R,

[dagger10k]

I really think that a lot of how we shoot is based around the gun. Until people become used to shooting a new type of gun, it would not necessarily be a fair comparison.

I know when I first started working with my Glock 20, it was much larger than the CZ 75B I'd been using, and hurt my hand quite a bit, becuase I wasn't adjusting the way I held it. Also, I shot way low with it.

If I had picked it up off a table to compare to my CZ, I would not have liked it.

Despite that, after just a few months with it, I am doing better than I ever did with the CZ. I'm not sure I can say it's because I switched guns, but it certainly didn't hurt. I think it takes a little bit of experience to figure out what really shoots well for you.

As the others said, just get a gun and shoot it. If you discover later down the road that it doesn't work for you for whatever reason, you can always switch.

Edited July 12, 2010 by dagger10k

[CocoBolo]

I think its a good question. What would objective testing be. Well first we would eliminate the most in-accurate testing device the human. Now if we test fired each gun from a vise what would we find. Well they all pretty much shoot the same with some small differences in trigger pull, recoil, and upward flip.

When we introduce the human that's when it gets difficult to be objective, because it winds up being what feels good in the hand, but if that is the most expensive then its not a good choice etc.

Basically you got two major groups "Heavy Metal" those are all steel guns with old fashioned hammers CZ, Eaa, Sig and "Plastic" thats your Glocks, M&P, XD. Go to a range rent some of both and go with the one that you have the best hits with. Like the guy that went with the Glock after the CZ, if you eat enough Broccli after a while Broccli gets to be easier to eat.

I like Heavy Metal and a Hammer, don't own any Plastic Guns, have won several and sold them. My wife started with a PX4 Storm and switched to a CZ75B and loves it, and carries a CZ 75 Compact. When I shoot production I borrow her gun.

[Dannix]

The only objective thing I can think of is how high up you can up grip the gun. Other than that, it's pretty individual. Even the 'feel' of difference calibers can be readily adjusted, if you're a reloader, to meet preferences. I know some shooting 160grn in their 9x19s for example. All about personal preference.

And I'd echo wurm. Unless you got really small hands, Glock is a very easy place to start. I had a bit of buyers remorse after I bought mine without range time. Didn;t like the grip right off. Now it feels like it was tailored to my hand. Like what dagger10k said.

Hope this helps. One word of advise -- don't buy cheap. Got ahead and save up and buy something good, not necessarily something absolutely epic, but good.

Edited July 15, 2010 by Dannix

[dagger10k]

I like broccoli! Especially when cooked in soy sauce. If you've never tried it, you are missing out.

Like the guy that went with the Glock after the CZ, if you eat enough Broccli after a while Broccli gets to be easier to eat.