Flexmoney Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Visual patience. Brian, It occurs to me to say that visual patience need not be based in time, but rather in mindset. Independent of time, instead it is an anchoring thought. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downrange58 Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Visual patience. Brian, It occurs to me to say that visual patience need not be based in time, but rather in mindset. Independent of time, instead it is an anchoring thought. ? Flex, I believe I saw a glimpse of this on Sunday. For three stages I was "See More" and it did not seem to be based in time but in application and mindset or as I call it, my one shot thought. I fell back into old habits on stages 3 and 4, but stages 5, 1 and 2 were on another level for me. I am still unclassified but I suspect I am a good D shooter, and out of 86 shooters I finished stage 2 30th overall and I had a "See Less" moment on the stage when I failed to engage a tucked away plate or it might have been 4 to 5 higher. My stage points were high and my time was better than many A and B shooters and TIME WAS NEVER A FACTOR it just was what it was, which to me solidifies your point for lack of a better term. Drills this week and for the next year will be focused on this concept "See More". Thanks again for your time on this and everything else you have helped on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle O Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 avg ~5.5 - 6.0, now for part 2 this evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted April 5, 2011 Author Share Posted April 5, 2011 Visual patience. Brian, It occurs to me to say that visual patience need not be based in time, but rather in mindset. ? Definitely. (Monty Python voice)... Wait for it! Visual patience. Brian, Independent of time, instead it is an anchoring thought. ? Independent of time, then there is no thought, because thought is time, and time is thought. In the active voice, your first sentence nails it - Visual patience is not based in time but rather in mindset. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downrange58 Posted April 5, 2011 Share Posted April 5, 2011 Visual patience. Brian, It occurs to me to say that visual patience need not be based in time, but rather in mindset. ? Definitely. (Monty Python voice)... Wait for it! Visual patience. Brian, Independent of time, instead it is an anchoring thought. ? Independent of time, then there is no thought, because thought is time, and time is thought. In the active voice, your first sentence nails it - Visual patience is not based in time but rather in mindset. be It really scares me that I am beginning to think that I am beginning to understand this thread..... Now I am going to have to choose between spending money on bullets or therapy..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 Consider shooting as therapy and call it a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanseiPA Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 I will definitely give this a try - thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downrange58 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Consider shooting as therapy and call it a day. You are wise beyond your years Flex! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm300 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I think a part of why this works so well is that you focus far to near much faster than near to far. Try putting your finger out in front of your face and focus on your finger, then move your focus to something 20 yards away. Then move your focus back to your finger. I think you will find far to near much faster than near to far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I think a part of why this works so well is that you focus far to near much faster than near to far. Try putting your finger out in front of your face and focus on your finger, then move your focus to something 20 yards away. Then move your focus back to your finger. I think you will find far to near much faster than near to far. I just saw a video a week or so ago where a top shotgunner covered that. I meant to post it in it's own thread here (not sure that I got to it?). For the record, here...with iron sights...my visual focus is sliding back and forth ... target - front sight - target - front sight - target - front sight (repeat as needed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downrange58 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Visual patience. Brian, It occurs to me to say that visual patience need not be based in time, but rather in mindset. ? Definitely. (Monty Python voice)... Wait for it! Visual patience. Brian, Independent of time, instead it is an anchoring thought. ? Independent of time, then there is no thought, because thought is time, and time is thought. In the active voice, your first sentence nails it - Visual patience is not based in time but rather in mindset. be After almost 7 days of be transition #1 dryfire drills in my garage doing it the way Brian and Flex suggested, I was able to get to the range. At first in my garage,I was painfully slow but I pressed on and within a short amount of time, I was going as fast the proper way as I was flashing through the dryfire drill without hardly seeing my sights at all! I went out to the range today and put it to the test... After two decent runs through, but still leaning to my old ways, I finally settled down to what I had been practicing in my garage and WHAT a difference! "The mindset" "Anchoring thought" as I understand it is to focus on the goal of flash your eyes to the next target and drive the gun to your target with a perfect sight picture and repeat. The result for me was that again "time" disappeared and was not a factor and my hits were tighter and low and behold 3/4 of a second dropped off of my best previous time.... As a beginning shooter I plan on building my foundation on this principle for a long time. Thanks again guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 Cool. Makes me want to go shoot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 Nice work Downrange! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Going to try this tomorrow. Unfortunately, we can't draw from a holster at the indoor range I practice at, so I'll do it from low ready. I'll report back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downrange58 Posted April 14, 2011 Share Posted April 14, 2011 Nice work Downrange! Thanks Brian! This is the most fun I have had in a long time.... Flex, While doing dryfire Transition Drill #1 tonight, I noticed something that I hadn't identified before. I have noticed that sometimes it flowed and sometimes it didn't and I wanted to know why. What I found was that as my eyes transitioned and locked on to the next target and the sights/gun followed closely behind, the movement of the sights (swinging into view from the left) caught my eyes or more specifically my left eye I suspect, drawing my vision off of my target and back on to the moving object/sights. It seemed to help when I focused more on the target and let the sights swing into the slot or line that my eyes were focused on therefore bringing the sights into a perfect focus on the target. At that point it just seems to flow again.... Fun practice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tollarja Posted April 17, 2011 Share Posted April 17, 2011 Finally remembered that I wanted to give this a try. I did ten runs and got an average of 8.66. I missed by less than an inch four times only, two of which I was trying to go faster just to see what I could see. That half second penalty normalized those times, so I am not too worried about how it affected the average. I saw some interesting things; I tend to be very predictable, the draw is around two seconds at that distance and my splits were around 0.8. The time was long enough that my eyes would lose their focus near the third pass, possibly due to oxygen usage. I would pause a bit more on occasion to see the front sight clearly, but it wouldn't happen that late. I think this has also been happening on long distance steel lately. I am working on snapping my eyes to the next spot before the front sight gets there. It seems to help when I forget I am trying to learn to do that. When I remember it feels clunky and slow. This is a good drill and has been very helpful so far. We'll see what I can do once I start to get used to it and I get part II from be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browtine Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I finally tried out the transition drill tonight. What great practice. I ran through it 10 times and finally started feeling like it was flowing on the last two. I've been at this since the 1st of the year and I'm a low B in production. My 10 runs averaged a 7.98 with an avg of a little under 1 C per run. Most of my C's were pretty close to the A zone so hopefully I can tighten that up next time out. However, my last run was clean at 6.76 so I stopped! This is going to help me out a ton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downrange58 Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 I finally tried out the transition drill tonight. What great practice. I ran through it 10 times and finally started feeling like it was flowing on the last two. I've been at this since the 1st of the year and I'm a low B in production. My 10 runs averaged a 7.98 with an avg of a little under 1 C per run. Most of my C's were pretty close to the A zone so hopefully I can tighten that up next time out. However, my last run was clean at 6.76 so I stopped! This is going to help me out a ton. This drill is a ton o fun isn't it! I am having so much fun, I am afraid to move on to #2.... Did you see Flexmoney's thoughts on how he transitions? Good stuff! Good shooting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waktasz Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Did this today at my indoor range. Unfortunately we can't draw from the holster so I started from low ready, one hand on the gun. At the beep I set up my grip and did the drill. Fastest was 4.79 and average was around 5.5. I noticed I did better going right to left. Going left to right I was putting a lot of shots to the right of the A zone on the third target. Need to work on that. Brian, can you send me the second part? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted April 19, 2011 Author Share Posted April 19, 2011 Did this today at my indoor range. Unfortunately we can't draw from the holster so I started from low ready, one hand on the gun. At the beep I set up my grip and did the drill. Fastest was 4.79 and average was around 5.5. I noticed I did better going right to left. Going left to right I was putting a lot of shots to the right of the A zone on the third target. Need to work on that. Brian, can you send me the second part? Thanks! Please PM me for part 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle O Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 After trying out part 2 in live fire practice a few times, I finally got to try it in a match situation this weekend, turns out, it works! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burket Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 PM Sent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siphon Odesse Posted April 21, 2011 Share Posted April 21, 2011 It seemed to help when I focused more on the target and let the sights swing into the slot or line that my eyes were focused on therefore bringing the sights into a perfect focus on the target. At that point it just seems to flow again.... Fun practice! Yes. Probably what Flexmoney stresses: target point, i.e. not just the target but a point in the midst of the A zone. I don't know who said it first, but anyway; with a focus on a point in the A-zone, with a lousy trigger movement you'll still get an A. Whereas with focus on the entire target plate and a lousy trigger movement you'll get a D or a miss. I see a parallell to the discipline of how you handle your handgun. I took a course with A Very Good Shooter ™ who pointed out how, with stern focus on pointing your gun not just downrange but pretty much on the " 0 degree line" when moving and / or reloading or otherwise manipulating the gun, you will have an ample safety margin should you stumble or otherwise yank or twitch your firearm. With a "somewhere within the 180 degree" attitude, an error of some sort may find you pointing your gun outside the safety angles. I like the idea of demonstrating to myself and students that both these things can be done as fast and as good in the "focused way" - with plenty As and in utter safety - as in the "sloppier" versions where you to a degree leave part of your performance to luck. Siphon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted April 21, 2011 Author Share Posted April 21, 2011 It seemed to help when I focused more on the target and let the sights swing into the slot or line that my eyes were focused on therefore bringing the sights into a perfect focus on the target. At that point it just seems to flow again.... Fun practice! Yes. Probably what Flexmoney stresses: target point, i.e. not just the target but a point in the midst of the A zone. I don't know who said it first, but anyway; with a focus on a point in the A-zone, with a lousy trigger movement you'll still get an A. Whereas with focus on the entire target plate and a lousy trigger movement you'll get a D or a miss. I see a parallell to the discipline of how you handle your handgun. I took a course with A Very Good Shooter ™ who pointed out how, with stern focus on pointing your gun not just downrange but pretty much on the " 0 degree line" when moving and / or reloading or otherwise manipulating the gun, you will have an ample safety margin should you stumble or otherwise yank or twitch your firearm. With a "somewhere within the 180 degree" attitude, an error of some sort may find you pointing your gun outside the safety angles. I like the idea of demonstrating to myself and students that both these things can be done as fast and as good in the "focused way" - with plenty As and in utter safety - as in the "sloppier" versions where you to a degree leave part of your performance to luck. Siphon Right. It doesn't take any longer to quickly shoot accurately than it does to quickly shoot rounds all over the place. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleA Posted May 1, 2011 Share Posted May 1, 2011 (edited) Did the first part of the Transition drill, ready for number 2 average of 6.78 I could stand to use my sights more at 12 c's for 6 runs PM sent Edited May 1, 2011 by DoubleA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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