Divisionless concept

[Alaskapopo]

I like the idea of a tactical match. Meaning anything that would work in real life and that is practical is allowed. So no open pistols. Pistols must either be concealed or in a police or military duty rig. Rifles and shotguns would be pretty much anything goes as long as you can lug it around and shoot the courses with it. I would make some small tight courses to simulate a building entry. So those 20 inch guns would take a heavy penalty in practicality.

Pat

Are you wanting to change 3 Gun into a paramilitary training exercise? But...Maybe you are on to something..... that would draw those of similar mindset. I think you should host/MD a major match and let the numbers tell the story.

Perhaps there would be a big turn out........

It seems to me that you see more stuff adapted by the military and LEO that were created in the competition environment than military and LEO stuff being adapted by competitive shooters.

There is a lot of good gear that gets used in competition before it comes to the real world. But not everything makes it. I am sure one day we will have optics on handguns that are reliable and tough enough for everyday use by cops and soldiers. But we are not there yet. I love shooting three gun and its a blast just the way it is. But I would like to see more realistic matches from time to time. Stuff you might find in real life. Kind of like an IDPA of three gun.

Pat

[Mike P]

Back on subject, Dan didn't you see all of the different guns at David's match? There were plenty of AKs, Fals, M14s,even one Hakim.

[Charles Bond]

Back on subject, Dan didn't you see all of the different guns at David's match? There were plenty of AKs, Fals, M14s,even one Hakim.

If the match at Steel City demonstrates anything it is that there is more than one way to successfully compete in a rifle match. Of course there is no substitute for practice and it is obvious that those bringing some of the less popular rifes work with them until they are more than competent with these platforms.

[dcloudy777]

Well, my late-night musings have certainly stirred up some conversation anyway. Actually I didn't see any of that stuff at David's match... pretty much everybody in my squad (myself included), had a McRifle (patent pending)... 18-20" 5.56mm AR with a low-powered variable. I should have just looked around more.

DanO

[AlamoShooter]

This is one time that me "Not knowing Nothing about it" is kinda fun / refreshing. =not knowing nothing about House clearing or police training. When I go to a shooting event, the only thing I care about is what gear configuration will help me get close to my capability.

If a match is anything less than I game = I don't want to shoot it.

But that is just Me

Edited June 17, 2010 by AlamoShooter

[Charles Bond]

This is one time that me "Not knowing Nothing about it" is kinda fun / refreshing. =not knowing nothing about House clearing or police training. When I go to a shooting event, the only thing I care about is what gear configuration will help me get close to my capability.

If a match is anything less than I game = I don't want to shoot it.

But that is just Me

Pretend that you were going to a mystery match. No walk through and no advance stage descriptions and the location might have close up and far away and in between or it might be all long range or it might be all close quarters. You might have to shoot through soft cover such as glass, wood or metal such as vehicle doors. You might have to engage targets on the move and all the tools you will use have to be carried on the weapon or your body. What would you take?

While this type of match does not exist and possibly never will, I think it pretty well describes the "game" law enforcement faces on each call out.

[mlmiller1]

Pretend that you were going to a mystery match. No walk through and no advance stage descriptions and the location might have close up and far away and in between or it might be all long range or it might be all close quarters. You might have to shoot through soft cover such as glass, wood or metal such as vehicle doors. You might have to engage targets on the move and all the tools you will use have to be carried on the weapon or your body. What would you take?

While this type of match does not exist and possibly never will, I think it pretty well describes the "game" law enforcement faces on each call out.

Don't forget the part where the "targets" may shoot back or they may be a child or any other of an unending list of possibilities that can't be foreseen. Tough job, no way to simulate any of that in a game, if you ask me. The best you can do is build skills that can possibly be used while doing that job.

MLM

[kurtm]

Well that match DID exist Charles! It was the old S.O.F. No walk throughs bring what you think works and don't change!

NO ONE is saying it isn't a hard job...it is!, and as Mr. Miller says you need to build skills around what you have, and there is no better place than in competition and force on force! My experience seems to be at odds with some, who just can't see any other view point.

As an aside, make any type of stage you want with TIGHT walls halls...etc. I will still smoke it with a FULL SIZED M-14 let alone a small light AR 20" carbine... it is all about where you come from and how you use what you have. KurtM

[AlamoShooter]

OK I saw you post Pat on the thread for the 60 round mag cuppler for P mags.... Now just what would your crew say if you showed up at work with the 60 round -upsidedown mag?

[Alaskapopo]

OK I saw you post Pat on the thread for the 60 round mag cuppler for P mags.... Now just what would your crew say if you showed up at work with the 60 round -upsidedown mag?

Definately a gaming mag.

For work and for three gun I run Springer Precision P mag couplers along with a BAD lever. It does make the gun weight a bit more but it greatly speeds reloads and gives you a solid firing platform when prone.

Here is my patrol/three gun rifle. (Noveske N4 Ligth Carbine) I plan on getting an 18 inch Noveske Rougue Hunter when funds allow. But for now my patrol rifle is doing ok. I even hit the long targets at the Larue Match.

I run the 20 30 combo for work so my gun will fit in my gun bag. I am getting a new car on Monday and the 20 30 combo is also needed to fit in its rifle rack. One thing about my Noveske is the barrel is a bit faster than you would expect. My velocities run faster than my 16 inch Colt and only 100 fps slower than my 20 inch Larue.

I think the Rougue Hunter would be great for the game. 7 pounds with a stainless 18 inch barrel. I am just going to put a scope on it nothing else.

http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?item_id=18rh-556&cat=102&page=1&search=&since=&status=

How many of you guys would go to a shoot in Alaska. You could come up shoot the shoot and go halibut fishing afterwards. I have a range and I could accomadate up to 50 shooters. The shoot I hosted this year was more popular than most shoots in the state I had 29 shooters. Not a lot by lower 48 standards but good for Alaska.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Alaskapopo

[cold]

Since you mentioned the Rogue Hunter upper as a viable gaming rifle (and it certainly would be) I thought I would just give you all notice that Noveske Rifleworks is working with us on a dedicated 3 gun profile for their SS barrels, uppers and rifles. Coming soon along with some other nifty ideas, so stay tuned.

[Alaskapopo]

Since you mentioned the Rogue Hunter upper as a viable gaming rifle (and it certainly would be) I thought I would just give you all notice that Noveske Rifleworks is working with us on a dedicated 3 gun profile for their SS barrels, uppers and rifles. Coming soon along with some other nifty ideas, so stay tuned.

Cool I don't have the money right now anyway.

pat

[AlamoShooter]

Halibut? the wife was going to buy some at the market , But it was $17.00 a pound

I could make the trip to Alaska , but I would have to skip all the other shoots that year

That would make a cool trip.

[Alaskapopo]

Halibut? the wife was going to buy some at the market , But it was $17.00 a pound

I could make the trip to Alaska , but I would have to skip all the other shoots that year

That would make a cool trip.

Yea I know it can be expensive. That is what its like for me to do any three gun shoots down there. Larue was not to bad as I used miles to pay for my ticket and two friends tickets and they paid for the hotel and rental car. But I am nearly out of miles now.

Pat

[Mike P]

Halibut? the wife was going to buy some at the market , But it was $17.00 a pound

I could make the trip to Alaska , but I would have to skip all the other shoots that year

That would make a cool trip.

Don't pay it, just find you a couple more Texas crooners, and form a fishmarket quartet and like Larry, Moe, Curly and Shemp, you can "sing for the halibut"

[sslav]

Heads-up competition, one big division (or maybe 2, more on that later), everyone shoots and is scored together, regardless of equipment. However, various firearm features are worth one or more "points". All of a competitor's 3 guns have to conform to a total point maximum, or perhaps you could have a "5 point division" and a "10 point division", or whatever. For example (meaningless numbers, naturally the actual values can be tweaked):

non-magnified optic: 1 point

magnified optic : 2 points

bipod : 1 point

detachable magzine : 1 point

comp/brake: : 1 point

.45 (pistol)/.308 : -1 point

I do not believe this approach would ever work work and here is why - how do you balance the points? Any balance will be entirely match specific. Magnified optic will give you a lot of advantage at longer ranges. If a match has a lot of long range shots the value of the magnification will be more. If it is all relatively shot range, the value of variable power is zero and may be negative. If shotgun stages require a lot of reloading box fed shotguns will have more of an advantage. If it requires no reloads or mixing of different types of rounds box fed guns will have less of an advantage and may even be at a disadvantage. etc...

[00bullitt]

<<<<<<<<Moderator Note>>>>>>>>>

Posts were deleted because their content did not follow the intent of the forum and there was a severe drift from the original topic. Please refrain from the tactical debates.

Intent

This Forum is for firearm, technique, and conceptual discussions pertaining to training and competition. (And various unrelated topics.) While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged. And please, no hunting or "killing animals" (of any kind) threads.