Flexmoney Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Showdown: World record - Showdown -BJ Norris - 8.11 total - 2.02 avg. - 2007 2003 Steel Challenge Best time = 9.01 (K.C.) Top 16 avg. = 10.00 PMC AMMUNITION Showdown will have two 3'x 3' shooting boxes and two runs will be shot from one shooting box and two from the other. The competitor may choose from either box to shoot their fifth and final run. There is NO movement between boxes during this course of fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Two runs from one box, two runs from the other and the 5th is shooters choice of box. No movement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBChaffin Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 I don't remember exactly how I shot this one. I got some help from a good shooter though and it was some sort of "circular" movement. I think it was 3, 4, 1, 2, stop from the left box, and 2, 1, 4, 3, stop from the right box. That sound plausible? Thoughts, ideas, comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Posted January 28, 2004 Share Posted January 28, 2004 I think it was 3, 4, 1, 2, stop from the left box, and2, 1, 4, 3, stop from the right box. That sound plausible? That's exactly how I would shoot it. Ray C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racer x Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 i set up in the right-front of the left box and shoot 1,2,3,4, stop..from the right box i set up in the left-front of the box and shoot 4,3,2,1,stop...my set up in the boxes brings the first 2 plates closer together... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted January 29, 2004 Share Posted January 29, 2004 1,2,3,4 stop from left - 2,1,4,3 from right. 3 runs from left, 2 from right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Dedmon Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 I set up & shoot it the same way racer x does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 I know this will sound boring, but, after experimenting with this stage forever, I almost always just end up shooting it left to right, as they appear, from each box. For me, that stage was always one to survive, with just solid, 2.75 - 3.25 runs. If I could do that, I was the winner. And if the first two runs went/felt good from the first box, I'd shoot the third one there right then. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 How about 2,3,4,1,S? Get the close plates shot first and then concentrate on the long shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danjordan78 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 Updating world records Men KC Eusebio-2011 7.99 2.00 avg Women Jessie Duff-2010 10.27 2.57 avg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Since I shoot mainly rimfire and only occasionally centerfire I find that sometimes it depends on where they put the aiming cone for low ready, especially on this stage. One thing I got from BJ last year at the NSSF was, if you don't know the stage well (which none of us do in the NSSF), shoot the first cone you can get to. In fact if you have some space lineup in the box so that your first plate is one you only have a vertical transition to. In Showdown it depends on whether you put one cone in front of each box or if you put one cone down the centerline of the stage. Big difference. In RFRO at Old Bridge I lowered my personal best from 10.20 to 8.61. If there is a cone in front of each shooting box I shoot the run 2,1,4,3,S from the left and 3,4,1,2,S from the right. If it is a common cone down the centerline of the Stop plate I reverse the order shooting 3,4,1,2,S from the left and 2,1,4,3,S from the right. Notice either way I do it the gun starts with the closest plate vertically to the gun muzzle. Centerfire I shoot it 3,4,1,2,S from the left and 3,4,2,1,S from the right. I shoot better left to right, and KC once said to break the stage down into a 2 plate and a 3 plate sequence. So I want the 3 plate group to be the left to right sequence. In one box that is 1,2,S and in the other it is 2,1,S. Then its just a matter of where you stand and which plate 3 or 4 shot last puts you closer to the plates on the left. My normal sequence is to first game the stage out shooting to my strengths, then experiment to see if another target sequence can be faster. I have recently changed the sequence on a couple of stages because of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 FWIW if they setup Showdown and don't put a cone in front of the two shooting boxes the stage is not setup in compliance with rule 5.2.3. Which now that I read it again I see that the cones I'm using aren't as tall as they should be so I'll be buying some new cones soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Some places, including regional NSSF and club SC may not have enough cones to go around. Heck I was at one match where they had none and just painted a spot on the ground in front of the shooting box. That's another thing also Zack. If the cone is tall enough you can fudge the 45 degree angle of the ready position (depending on the RO). Back when they were shooting Double Tap in Ruger Rimfire and everyone was trying to get under the 1 second barrier and everyone was using John Allchin's video to game the stage body position I found out I could do a consistent .80-.95 second run if I put my arms straight out in front of me then lowered my wrists so the gun was pointing at the cone. Technically I was observing the letter of the rule but in spirit I was violating it. All I had to do was flip my wrists straight and start shooting. Not any less safe than Johns position that was a 2-handed version of the IDPA arm retention position with the pistol pointed straight out. I generally prefer small cones so everyone gets the idea the barrel has to be pointed closer to the ground to be at 45 degrees. Fudging it 15-20 degrees can drop your first round hit time by as much as .2 seconds or more. That can add up to close to a 1 sec. difference per stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 I just read 5.2.3 and my position I mentioned is perfectly legal with the pistol under the current and provisional rules. I think I am going to practice that more and try in in the next SC match at PNTC on 7/4. So as long as the gun is pointed at the cone, your finger is off the trigger, and you are inside the box it is a legal position in rimfire. Interesting. That evens means being on your knees is also legal and that would put your pistol or rifle pointing straight out. Also interesting. Always felt sorry for the tall guys shooting rimfire because they had to point down farther and bring the gun up a greater distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 (edited) I just read 5.2.3 and my position I mentioned is perfectly legal with the pistol under the current and provisional rules. That evens means being on your knees is also legal ... 5.2.1 The start position is standing within the box SCSA is simple and only specifies (in 5.2.3) that: The competitor while waiting for the start signal, must be pointing/aiming their gun at the flag/sign with the finger off the trigger. NSSF is more interesting with an alternative. 7.1 Starting Position 7.1.1 Handgun Participant will start with handgun in hand(s) ready to fire with the safety disengaged, aiming at a designated object (orange cone) 10 feet down range. Alternate start position may be elbows at side with arms and gun barrel parallel with ground. 7.1.2 Rifle Participant will start with rifle in hand(s) ready to fire with the safety disengaged, aiming at a designated object (orange cone) 10 feet down range. Alternate start position may be with stock of rifle touching hip with rifle barrel parallel with ground. Edited June 26, 2015 by Tom E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Oh yeh I forgot about 5.2.1. But even NSSF does not specify the position of your body parts as long as the gun itself is aimed at the cone, your finger is off the trigger and you are standing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 We used taller flags today and I didn't notice that much of a difference between them and the cones we normally use. Given the rule says 2 feet we'll stick with the taller markers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 i would imagine that for most shooters even if they are used to pointing at the ground and now start 2' off the ground they have so many others things that are not optimum that the extra 18"-20" head start wouldn't be noticable but for those that are already really fast and accurate, starting out 2' higher plus having your finger already inside the trigger guard may allow you to shave close to another .1 sec off your time which would be huge .... going to have to do some serious experimenting now that I know I can have my finger inside the trigger guard prior to the start .... we'll see if it amounts to anything .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 (edited) I usually put the edge of my fingernail on the forward part of the trigger guard in the ready position, rifle or pistol. Finally got the stock I wanted today for my RFRI rifle. Already have my RFPI pistol but somehow misplaced my set of Williams Firesights for that pistol. Also finished my Mk III Frankenruger open pistol. One or two issues to clean up on it then going to have a shoot off against my longtime custom Buckmark open gun. May the best pistol win. Got a 5 stage SC match on 7/4 AM and an 8 stage one on 7/5 AM at another club. All sandwiched around my monthly Hold'em tourney on Sat. night. Fixed the issue with the FrankenRuger so now I have 2 rimfire open guns. Edited July 1, 2015 by photoracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 FWIW if they setup Showdown and don't put a cone in front of the two shooting boxes the stage is not setup in compliance with rule 5.2.3. Which now that I read it again I see that the cones I'm using aren't as tall as they should be so I'll be buying some new cones soon. Zach: we've always setup Showdown & OL like you, with a cone in front of each box .... when I read 5.2.3 it only says to put 1 cone in the center of the array? where did you read that there should be a cone in front of each shooting box? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
photoracer Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 That is what the current rules specify on stages with multiple shooting boxes like I said. I have seen it both ways still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 FWIW if they setup Showdown and don't put a cone in front of the two shooting boxes the stage is not setup in compliance with rule 5.2.3. Which now that I read it again I see that the cones I'm using aren't as tall as they should be so I'll be buying some new cones soon. Zach: we've always setup Showdown & OL like you, with a cone in front of each box .... when I read 5.2.3 it only says to put 1 cone in the center of the array? where did you read that there should be a cone in front of each shooting box? I could be wrong (not the first time) but 5.2.3 calls out outer limits specifically but not showdown. Therefore I setup showdown with one cone in front of each box. That's how it's setup at another club I shoot at here in South Carolina. I spent a few minutes looking at videos on YouTube and it seems clubs run it both ways. I've sent an email to DNROI asking for clarification. I'll let you know what Troy has to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 thx, i was about to o the same thing. the rule book is not very clear ... it says " for stages like Outer Limits with multiple shooting boxes a cone should be placed in the center of the stage" since it uses the words " ... stages like Outer Limits" that would seem to imply we should do the same thing for the other stages with multiple boxes, ie Showdown but at Nationals there was a flag in front of each box ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 thx, i was about to o the same thing. the rule book is not very clear ... it says " for stages like Outer Limits with multiple shooting boxes a cone should be placed in the center of the stage" since it uses the words " ... stages like Outer Limits" that would seem to imply we should do the same thing for the other stages with multiple boxes, ie Showdown but at Nationals there was a flag in front of each box ... Who cares about the nationals. It's an outlaw match . Hopefully Troy will respond soon and then we'll all know the right thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Troy replied and said he has seen it setup both ways. Cone in front of each box is the norm so that is what I plan to keep doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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