Exclusive use of classic target

[Nik Habicht]

Match directors already have the choice. Shooters are welcome to voice their opinions on the matter to match directors. I personally like a blend -- I like the different challenges offered by the Classic and by the upper A/B only presentation of the Metric, in addition to all the other painted variations of both.

Shooters are likely to encounter Classics on some stages at Area matches and Nationals....

[briansea2]

You can try to be PC all you want but lets get real here ..............we are shooting guns. It is going to be real difficult to make that PC no matter what you do.

[briansea2]

Give me head or give me death !

oooops !

[Flyin40]

No, no and no. We can use either by choice, I like it that way. Thats a road we don't want to go down. Intentions might be well placed but are far off the mark. This country is moving towards more gun ownership and rights. We are seeing it everyday. It doesn't stop them from trying to take them but it doesn't matter one bit what target we are shooting. They want our guns, period. Glad things have moved more towards the 2nd amendment.

Flyin

[Flyin40]

Turn this into a poll to keep it from going to political.

Flyin

[HS101]

Yeah.... not liking this idea at all

If we try to please any/everyone... we will end up shooting airsoft matches... The fundamental elements of our sport will change.

If you don't like the targets, Canada isn't all that far away. IPSC is the PC version of our game.

[Canuck223]

Yeah.... not liking this idea at all

If we try to please any/everyone... we will end up shooting airsoft matches... The fundamental elements of our sport will change.

If you don't like the targets, Canada isn't all that far away. IPSC is the PC version of our game.

For what it's worth;

1) we fu@#ing hate being forced to abandon the Metric target.

2) IPSC actually has approved Airsoft, but our sections and the region as a whole are not willing to include airsoft at this time.

3) Uncle Vinny has gotten a persecution complex because of some vigourous and vocal Canadian opposition to his movement to prohibit chest rigs from IPSC rifle and shotgun.

While in general, (my opinion is that ) Canadians would prefer to remain within IPSC as a whole, stupid PC notions like this are driving us ever closer to asking USPSA to accept a whole country as a new Area.

[atbarr]

We shoot real guns, with real bullets. We can't appease the liberals and anti-gunners unless we give them our guns. I personally will NOT do that.

A.T.

[Flyin40]

Poll, Poll, Poll

Flyin

[Jake Di Vita]

I hate the idea.

Phil's a buddy of mine, but I disagree with him on this.

I despise political correctness. I think that our sport will always have that image to the PC'ers.

If we 'shoot' things that dont look like guns, without gunpowder, at flower shaped targets, someone will think we're violence mongers.

So, the hell with them, we're xxxxxxx if we cave in.

Give an inch, they'll take a mile.

I like the idea of possibly getting more main stream attention towards USPSA...but that is damn hard to argue with.

[Greg Bell]

IMO it is silly to go PC and think you are appeasing anyone.

[kgunz11]

I like the humanoid targets. I shoot to become a better marksman, so the shape or size of the target are ALMOST irrelevant. I started shooting to become a better marksman so I could hit my target, irrelevant of it's shape. When I play this "game" we call USPSA, the target size or shape doesn't matter, but if I ever have to use my gun as a weapon, I like the fact that I am better prepared.

I like having 2 A zones as well. Leave the A/B zone on my targets please, it gives me multiple target areas and degrees of difficulty.

[Flyin40]

I like the humanoid targets. I shoot to become a better marksman, so the shape or size of the target are ALMOST irrelevant. I started shooting to become a better marksman so I could hit my target, irrelevant of it's shape. When I play this "game" we call USPSA, the target size or shape doesn't matter, but if I ever have to use my gun as a weapon, I like the fact that I am better prepared.

I like having 2 A zones as well. Leave the A/B zone on my targets please, it gives me multiple target areas and degrees of difficulty.

+1 on the A/B zones. Some of the stages I liked the most had the A/B zone available in some unique target arrangement

Flyin

[Woody Allen]

You can try to be PC all you want but lets get real here ..............we are shooting guns. It is going to be real difficult to make that PC no matter what you do.

The "upper A zone" represents the cranio-ocular cavity, i.e., I shot'em in the brain. Oops that sure ain't PC.

Headless targets. No way, no how, no chance, will headless targets make any difference in this country if one is trying to increase the "acceptance" factor of action shooting. Let us take away all/sever/remove/sanitize all aspects of the origin of this activity--to gain what??

I got it. A new "rule" that no guns capable or could be practically used in self-defense or violent conflict are allowed in USPSA. USPSA guns don't kill people-or at least no one would view a USPSA gun as a "gun that could fall into the wrong hands."

Handguns should be outlawed except in the hands of LEO or Military. Airsoft is the future.

We ain't Europe. Live with it. IPSC won't be in the Olympics.

Reality-with concealed carry spreading across the country (except two states), we should go in the opposite direction. Every stage should have a "reality" requirement. Example-you are in your living room, at the start signal, engage the 32 terrorists/zombies/aliens/democrats who have invaded your home to rape your dog, piss in your Wheaties, corrupt your children and steal your soul.

[ajg308]

I hate the idea.

Phil's a buddy of mine, but I disagree with him on this.

I despise political correctness. I think that our sport will always have that image to the PC'ers.

If we 'shoot' things that dont look like guns, without gunpowder, at flower shaped targets, someone will think we're violence mongers.

So, the hell with them, we're pussies if we cave in.

Give an inch, they'll take a mile.

This is strictly my opinion and not a criticism of anyone else's.

I see the other sides points, I just dont agree with them.

+1 Piss on being PC.

[Flyin40]

You can try to be PC all you want but lets get real here ..............we are shooting guns. It is going to be real difficult to make that PC no matter what you do.

The "upper A zone" represents the cranio-ocular cavity, i.e., I shot'em in the brain. Oops that sure ain't PC.

Headless targets. No way, no how, no chance, will headless targets make any difference in this country if one is trying to increase the "acceptance" factor of action shooting. Let us take away all/sever/remove/sanitize all aspects of the origin of this activity--to gain what??

I got it. A new "rule" that no guns capable or could be practically used in self-defense or violent conflict are allowed in USPSA. USPSA guns don't kill people-or at least no one would view a USPSA gun as a "gun that could fall into the wrong hands."

Handguns should be outlawed except in the hands of LEO or Military. Airsoft is the future.

We ain't Europe. Live with it. IPSC won't be in the Olympics.

Reality-with concealed carry spreading across the country (except two states), we should go in the opposite direction. Every stage should have a "reality" requirement. Example-you are in your living room, at the start signal, engage the 32 terrorists/zombies/aliens/democrats who have invaded your home to rape your dog, piss in your Wheaties, corrupt your children and steal your soul.

I love it

Flyin

[briansea2]

Example-you are in your living room, at the start signal, engage the 32 terrorists/zombies/aliens/democrats who have invaded your home to rape your dog, piss in your Wheaties, corrupt your children and steal your soul.

I love it

Flyin

ok so what are the terrorists /zombies and aliens going to do? lol

hahahahahaha

[JD45]

Sure, it is a sport, but it ain't tennis.

I think we should always keep the roots of the game alive. Keep the heads on the targets, tell the reporters that it is supposed to represent a man, and to kiss our ass if they don't like it.

Those same people claiming they are protecting the minds of our youth, will gladly send them overseas when they turn 18 to fight a war for us. Quite a few will come home in body bags or missing limbs. I say let Junior start practicing for that early in life.

[Steven Cline]

Would I quit? No.

Would I resist it? Oh, yes.

Would I vote for a person who advocated this position? Preferably not.

Would this be a make or break issue? Nope. But, one would get my vote after receiving the letter stating my vote is for other that the person's stance on this matter and I expect them to seriously consider that point.

[Schutzenmeister]

[...]

We ain't Europe. Live with it. IPSC won't be in the Olympics.

[...]

While generally I believe you are correct, it is interesting to note that the Italian government just recently and officially recognized IPSC through its Olympic Committee. Yeah, I know ... That and $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks - Nevertheless ...

[Steven Cline]

Other observations:

Why do we the drop-turner? 'Cuz it represents a threat which is only a threat for short period of time, most obviously the threat which sees your gun and drops theirs or turns to flee.

Why do we have the Max Trap? 'Cuz it represents the hostage held by a threat which momentarily exposes the hostile.

Why do we have the Clam-shell? 'Cus it represents the threat that is only momentarily exposed without obstruction before it grabs a hostage or a non-threat steps in front of the threat.

Why do we have stinking no-shoot? 'Cuz they were the simplist way to present the PRACTICAL shooting scenario where a non-threat person may be partially in the way.

Why do we the running/moving target? 'Cuz it represents the threat which is running/moving and shooting at you and needs shooting while it's running/moving.

Why do we have the swinger? 'Cuz it represents the threat which leans out to shoot at you then ducks back behind cover.

Why do we have no-shoots that swing in front of stationary targets or other various combinations? Because in real shooting situations bad guys expose and disappear and innocent bystanders do stupid crap like run between you and the active shooter.

Why do we have the bobber/double-bobber? 'Cuz it represents the threats bobbing up from behind cover threaten you.

Why do we have hard and soft cover? 'Cuz we recognize that some time we may have to engaeg a threat which is behind concealment and concealment isn't bullet proof.

If we give into the political correctness of no human shaped target then we should expect to give up these practical tests of our shooting skill.

When we do, we should change the name to USPCSA (United States Politically Correct Shooting Association)!

The above scenarios are so blatantly martial that once you give up to the PC police the Metric target they are gonna go for these as well. The argument against metric is the same as against these "scenario" targets- "yer training to kill people." Their partially right, but more accurately it's training to shoot a threat under less than ideal conditions, but those which might possible be encountered.

Give up the Metric to appease and you might be on the slippery slope to playing laser-tag.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Steven Cline

[G-ManBart]

I like the option of both targets. I think the turtles are fun to shoot and offer a nice change of pace. We had 8 stages yesterday and one of them used turtles....fun to change it up. I wouldn't quite, but I wouldn't be happy about being forced into using a target with no upper scoring zone. R,

[LChico]

[...]

We ain't Europe. Live with it. IPSC won't be in the Olympics.

[...]

While generally I believe you are correct, it is interesting to note that the Italian government just recently and officially recognized IPSC through its Olympic Committee. Yeah, I know ... That and $2.50 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks - Nevertheless ...

You drink budget coffee - my Starbucks favorite is closer to $5.00 (additional cost for extra shots of espresso in the biggest cup they sell)

I like choices. Steel Challenge offers "circles & rectangles" to shoot at, and our local club USPSA matches regularly throw in a stage or two with all classic targets. We have pepper poppers & classic poppers - more options for the stage designers. The beauty is in the freestyle shooting challenge, and variety is good. I would hate to see "all metric" as much as I would hate "all classic."

Linda Chico (L-2035)

Columbia SC

Edited May 25, 2010 by LChico

[mike cyrwus]

Some have heads?

All I see are some with a big and small A zone, and others with one.

[LPatterson]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions which is what a Classic target is. I hate the idea of PC because it is only caving in to our enemies be they foreign or domestic. Sort of like the oath I was given when I joined the military and everytime I reenlisted where I swore to defend the Constitution of the United States. It is almost impossible to have a non disappearing moving classic target because there is no A/B zone to leave visable.

In the 10 years that I have been a member of my home club we have never used a Classic target and I am happy to say that I now understand the reasoning.