Exclusive use of classic target

[sslav]

If you have people in bright coloured spandex cloth runnign through the woods with skis shooting on small black circles in front of a white square you call it biathlon.

If Biathlon had to get into the Olympics today it would have a snowballs chance in hell all the colored spandex and abstract targets notwithstanding.

[fritzthemoose]

If you have people in bright coloured spandex cloth runnign through the woods with skis shooting on small black circles in front of a white square you call it biathlon.

If Biathlon had to get into the Olympics today it would have a snowballs chance in hell all the colored spandex and abstract targets notwithstanding.

dont know about that but I dont know any station that broadcasts winter warefare training but several that do biathlon

[Flexmoney]

Subtract the politically correct element of the discussion and what you are left with is one target that hinders an expansion of our sport to the media and thus limiting ourselves in prizes and money for all shooters.

Just my view as a sponsor.

Subtract the Practical element and what you are left with are a bunch of PO'd current customers. Would you rather keep a current customer that is buying your product now, or roll the dice on the phantom customer of the future ?

Just my view as a consumer of products and services.

[sslav]

If you have people in bright coloured spandex cloth runnign through the woods with skis shooting on small black circles in front of a white square you call it biathlon.

If Biathlon had to get into the Olympics today it would have a snowballs chance in hell all the colored spandex and abstract targets notwithstanding.

dont know about that but I dont know any station that broadcasts winter warefare training but several that do biathlon

You are mistaken. You can find biathlon only during the Olympics ... I guess. I have not actually seen it on TV in years. It is about as exciting to watch as ... well practical shooting. You can find something on arctic warfare on history channel with some regularity.

But why talk biathlon at all. IPSC has now completely banned practical metric targets. So: Colorful clothing - check. Abstract targets - check. TV time.... Major Corporate sponsorship .... Olympic participation ...

Case closed.

[fritzthemoose]

If you have people in bright coloured spandex cloth runnign through the woods with skis shooting on small black circles in front of a white square you call it biathlon.

If Biathlon had to get into the Olympics today it would have a snowballs chance in hell all the colored spandex and abstract targets notwithstanding.

dont know about that but I dont know any station that broadcasts winter warefare training but several that do biathlon

You are mistaken. You can find biathlon only during the Olympics ... I guess. I have not actually seen it on TV in years. It is about as exciting to watch as ... well practical shooting. You can find something on arctic warfare on history channel with some regularity.

But why talk biathlon at all. IPSC has now completely banned practical metric targets. So: Colorful clothing - check. Abstract targets - check. TV time.... Major Corporate sponsorship .... Olympic participation ...

Case closed.

in my part of the world biathlon is on tv pretty much every week while for example there are exactly 0 baseball games.

[sslav]

in my part of the world biathlon is on tv pretty much every week while for example there are exactly 0 baseball games.

Are you still talking about biathlon? Or is IPSC is on TV every week? Regardless. I your part of the world you already can not use practical metric targets. What is your interest in banning it in our part of the world?

[Vlad]

in my part of the world biathlon is on tv pretty much every week while for example there are exactly 0 baseball games.

I think what Slav was getting to is that you see it on TV mostly because it predates the current politically correct world we live in. I see that the European IPSC shooters already wear colorful track suits and shoot at the more politically correct targets. How is that is going, seeing IPSC on TV every week? Any big European business rushing in to sponsor shooters or matches, specially the ones not selling shooting related gear? Are the governments more open to gun ownership because of it? Is the sport growing by leaps and bounds?

Edited to add: and he posted exactly that while I was typing.

Edited June 21, 2010 by Vlad

[fritzthemoose]

in my part of the world biathlon is on tv pretty much every week while for example there are exactly 0 baseball games.

I think what Slav was getting to is that you see it on TV mostly because it predates the current politically correct world we live in. I see that the European IPSC shooters already wear colorful track suits and shoot at the more politically correct targets. How is that is going, seeing IPSC on TV every week? Any big European business rushing in to sponsor shooters or matches, specially the ones not selling shooting related gear? Are the governments more open to gun ownership because of it? Is the sport growing by leaps and bounds?

Edited to add: and he posted exactly that while I was typing. 

not every sport does make big money or big attention and not every activity must be a sport. All I am saying is, that if you want IPSC to be considered a serious sport by the public then there are some dos and donts

[Vlad]

not every sport does make big money or big attention and not every activity must be a sport.

That doesn't answer my question. IPSC has tried what this thread suggested. Has it worked?

All I am saying is, that if you want IPSC to be considered a serious sport by the public then there are some dos and donts

And if I don't? For the most part I couldn't care less what the "public" considers to be a sport, the "public" considers poker a sport if you ask the TV channels covering sports. The "public" think trampoline jumping is an Olympic sport. I don't really put much faith in the "public". All I want from the public is to not interfere with what I consider a sport, and one could make an argument that looking non-threatening helps with that, but I ask again: How's it going in Europe?

Edited June 21, 2010 by Vlad

[sslav]

That doesn't answer my question. IPSC has tried what this thread suggested. Has it worked?

There seems to be some resistance to answering this question as well as the ones about Steel Challenge, ProAm, GSSF. I think we all know the answer though. And yet there is this unfounded belief that with us it will be different! It seems that we have now entered into a religious argument. Which is against forum guidelines. Maybe it is time to close this thread.

For the most part I couldn't care less what the "public" considers to be a sport, the "public" considers poker a sport if you ask the TV channels covering sports. The "public" think trampoline jumping is an Olympic sport. I don't really put much faith in the "public".

Curling ... nuff said.

Edited June 21, 2010 by sslav

[usmc1974]

We, as a society, are getting far too PC as it is. Switching to "non-humanoid" targets is just going a bit too far, imo.

+1 Let me see here, we are shooting real guns, with real bullets. Shoot them fast as we can looking for center mass, and double tapping it to boot. Do you think that the ANTI'S GIVE A SHI CARPP ABOUT THE SHAPE OF THE TARGET.Say what you want they want to get rid of the head to please the anti's and be more PC, it don't work. Give a mouse a cookie and the bass&%^ard wants a class of milk. Keep the head loose the PC crapppp.

[38supPat]

Under the phrase "be careful what you wish for" will big sponsorship, money and TV exposure really help or hinder the sport?

I've seem what can happen to motor racing series when they grow in this fashion. Usually it makes the sport prohibitively expensive except for those that can get sponsorship, the little guy gets pushed off by the wayside. You have to decide if this sport is to go "pro" and if it does it will require a lot more money just to play the game.

[usmc1974]

Under the phrase "be careful what you wish for" will big sponsorship, money and TV exposure really help or hinder the sport?

I've seem what can happen to motor racing series when they grow in this fashion. Usually it makes the sport prohibitively expensive except for those that can get sponsorship, the little guy gets pushed off by the wayside. You have to decide if this sport is to go "pro" and if it does it will require a lot more money just to play the game.

I agree, and it is the little guys, B,C and a lot of D and U shooters that keep this sport alive.Just a thought.

[Schutzenmeister]

That doesn't answer my question. IPSC has tried what this thread suggested. Has it worked?

[...]

How's it going in Europe? 

I can't answer the question as a whole, but I did recently become aware that the Italian Government recently and officialy recognized IPSC as a sport on a par with Olympic level disciplines.

OK ... So it's not everything. But it is a bright note.

(I'm not trying to defend anything here ... Just answer a question which was posed.)

[fritzthemoose]

And if I don't? For the most part I couldn't care less what the "public" considers to be a sport, the "public" considers poker a sport if you ask the TV channels covering sports. The "public" think trampoline jumping is an Olympic sport. I don't really put much faith in the "public". All I want from the public is to not interfere with what I consider a sport, and one could make an argument that looking non-threatening helps with that, but I ask again: How's it going in Europe?

Dont have any numbers here to support this but out of my stomach I would say that IPSC is the fastest growing branch within shooting. Most competitions are full. You can in theory shoot a competition every weekend if you are willing to spend some time in the car. Say in theory as some competitions like state championships are closed to out of state shooters or sometimes there is more than one at the same day.

[Vlad]

 

Dont have any numbers here to support this but out of my stomach I would say that IPSC is the fastest growing branch within shooting. Most competitions are full. You can in theory shoot a competition every weekend if you are willing to spend some time in the car. Say in theory as some competitions like state championships are closed to out of state shooters or sometimes there is more than one at the same day.

We already have that problem were I live. I can shoot matches every weekend within comfortable driving distance, and the limiting factor is often having to many shooters, and range time slot availability. 

[GentlemanJim]

You can pretty much count me out on anything that is PC!

Submission is ultimately the same as suicide.

Jim

[wgnoyes]

... ever try and do 25% of a frigg'n turtle target? Ya have to know geometry to pull it off and then what if some DRL shooting Open arbs it?

Little bit of drift here, but there's actually a diagram to go in the rulebook as part of the Mar 1st update that shows specific ways to precisely mask off a percentage of that target. Maybe George Jones will post it here for us.

[Flexmoney]

... ever try and do 25% of a frigg'n turtle target? Ya have to know geometry to pull it off and then what if some DRL shooting Open arbs it?

Little bit of drift here, but there's actually a diagram to go in the rulebook as part of the Mar 1st update that shows specific ways to precisely mask off a percentage of that target. Maybe George Jones will post it here for us.

That would make a good stand alone thread...

[Jim Norman]

Is it the guns? or is it the targets?

How many people know someone that will allow their children to play violent video games or Paintball where they actually SHOOT AT and HIT HUMAN BEINGS, but nearly faint at the prospect of little Johnny or Suzy shooting a real gun at a piece of paper?

It is the GUNS people.

The president of IPSC is reported to have said, he would take the gunpowder out of IPSC if he could....and now we have Airsoft IPSC and regions that can vote, but not hold a real match with real guns.

[Steven Cline]

Is it the guns? or is it the targets?

How many people know someone that will allow their children to play violent video games or Paintball where they actually SHOOT AT and HIT HUMAN BEINGS, but nearly faint at the prospect of little Johnny or Suzy shooting a real gun at a piece of paper?

It is the GUNS people.

The president of IPSC is reported to have said, he would take the gunpowder out of IPSC if he could....and now we have Airsoft IPSC and regions that can vote, but not hold a real match with real guns.

I think we have a winner.

[GentlemanJim]

Plain and simple fact! Every little thing you give up, is lost forever.

No amount of appeasement will ever be enough..its just death by a thousand tiny cuts.

Hold the line!

Jim

[cas]

"Subtract the politically correct element of the discussion and what you are left with is one target that hinders an expansion of our sport to the media and thus limiting ourselves in prizes and money for all shooters."

As was stated before, most USPSA members aren't on this forum. Most USPSA shooters would be unaffected by more prizes and money. I think about the two clubs I shoot at, only a handful of the members shoot at Area matches. maybe one or two guys will go to a national event. So why would local Larry who only shoots club matches really care? Will he really be upset that Max Michel only wins a new pistol at a match, rather than a new car? Tv coverage and good prizes at big matches don't effect him, changing the game does.

That's what we're talking about, changing the game for everyone, for the benefit of the minority.

Edited June 27, 2010 by cas

[George Jones]

... ever try and do 25% of a frigg'n turtle target? Ya have to know geometry to pull it off and then what if some DRL shooting Open arbs it?

Little bit of drift here, but there's actually a diagram to go in the rulebook as part of the Mar 1st update that shows specific ways to precisely mask off a percentage of that target. Maybe George Jones will post it here for us.

Let me see what I can do.

[Reshoot]

Give me a head on my targets. Draw a face on it, put it in a wife-beater, w/ a crack pipe in one hand and a knife in the other.

+2