LaRue targets & Flash targets past 400yards

[bigbrowndog]

Jamie, you are now adding personal gratification into the mix, just because you enjoy missing longer shots than closer ones does not make the challenge less or more.

What is an accurate rifle, accurate ammo, and as far as 3 gun is concerned the ability to read a ballistic table is really not an issue. There are far better things to concern yourself with than knowing all data on a ballistic table. There are very good shooters winning matches that do not know how to read a ballistic table, or their own rifles trajectory, which may be why they want ballistic trees set into their scopes. If what you want is to turn 3 gun/multigun into a precision rifle match, with moa targets and distances beyond 300yds there are plenty of those types events around already, and most do not require you to use the shotgun or pistol.

Trapr

[AlamoShooter]

Jamie, you are now adding personal gratification into the mix, just because you enjoy missing longer shots than closer ones does not make the challenge less or more.

What is an accurate rifle, accurate ammo, and as far as 3 gun is concerned the ability to read a ballistic table is really not an issue. There are far better things to concern yourself with than knowing all data on a ballistic table. There are very good shooters winning matches that do not know how to read a ballistic table, or their own rifles trajectory, which may be why they want ballistic trees set into their scopes. If what you want is to turn 3 gun/multigun into a precision rifle match, with moa targets and distances beyond 300yds there are plenty of those types events around already, and most do not require you to use the shotgun or pistol.

Trapr

You are most likely rite, and I can come close to accepting a match set under limits like that as still being a fun event.

The thing that I grabbed onto in starting 3 gun was that targets 'might be set' out over 300 yards and as far as 600.

1/2 of what I remember shooters tell me about last years RM3g is the 600 yard shot = "one shot out of the entire event" is the main thing they remember, or tell about.

I just hate to see more limits in difficulty to one more shooting event.

And! I say again.And! personal gratification is the the only reason I shoot . I think it is any way .

Shooting five paper targets at five yards in 5 seconds instead of 6 is not what makes a match worth driving 40 miles to me. I can get that at home. Targets like that are just something I have to do to play game and get to targets I like to shoot.

[ken hebert]

I loved the challenge of the 600yd shot at RM3G last year, and i'm one of the guys who talks about it repeatedly.

[bigbrowndog]

I have no problem, with any match that uses 4moa targets even out to 600 yds, just make then able to been seen with the naked eye. The main problem is when existing targets get pushed beyond the 4 moa distance. If those of you looking for more challenge really want one, and not just saying it, then shoot iron sights, or even a 1x optic, and then if you feel that challenge inadequate, boast about your prowess or put on your own match. Its very easy to say that a target presentation is too easy, when you're looking at from a magnified prespective.

as for those making excuses about the inability to shoot irons, the 1x optic has always been available to use if you really want more challenge, otherwise one of my signature lines probably applies to you!!.

Jamie, if you want more challenge all you have to do is ask, and I can loan you an iron sight rifle.

Trapr

Edited May 18, 2010 by bigbrowndog

[M ammo]

I loved the challenge of the 600yd shot at RM3G last year, and i'm one of the guys who talks about it repeatedly.

I like the,, Idea of it as well,,, but making the shot, will probably not win the match or louse the match,,

The meat was getting the targets from 200 to 400,,,

I think that is what Jamie is saying,,,

Jim M ammo

[P.E. Kelley]

Keeping this within the 3 gun context, I am absolutely with Trapr in this and the 4 MOA target minimum.

Stages that have me using binocular's or spotting scopes just to locate the targets is not right.

What ever happened to "be sure of your target and what is beyond"

Now that the optic world and is making 1.1 or 1.5 to 8 power scope should we push the targets even

further away?

If we collectively say "forget about the Iron sight shooters" and put smaller targets farther away

than can be seen over, around or though Iron sights, then let's do the same to all of you

who failed to bring more than a measly 4 power scope. How about KYL targets at 200 yards? Golf balls at 450?

Clay birds at 600?

Kids this is practical 3 gunning. Iron sight 2 MOA rifles should be able to complete every stage.

Please, if you need, want or must have small targets at great distances

than by all means put on that type of match, just don't call it practical 3 gun.

Patrick

[M ammo]

Keeping this within the 3 gun context, I am absolutely with Trapr in this and the 4 MOA target minimum.

Stages that have me using binocular's or spotting scopes just to locate the targets is not right.

What ever happened to "be sure of your target and what is beyond"

Now that the optic world and is making 1.1 or 1.5 to 8 power scope should we push the targets even

further away?

If we collectively say "forget about the Iron sight shooters" and put smaller targets farther away

than can be seen over, around or though Iron sights, then let's do the same to all of you

who failed to bring more than a measly 4 power scope. How about KYL targets at 200 yards? Golf balls at 450?

Clay birds at 600?

Kids this is practical 3 gunning. Iron sight 2 MOA rifles should be able to complete every stage.

Please, if you need, want or must have small targets at great distances

than by all means put on that type of match, just don't call it practical 3 gun.

Patrick

++++++1

[AlamoShooter]

I really do not know much about 3 Gun . I did not even know it was called "Practical 3 gun" And not much satisfaction to a target that you can not find or see with plain vision.

I have no intention of hosting a large event = I have paid my dues over the years

[bigbrowndog]

its the "P" in our original organization. As Pat said, too many MD's and stage designers forget that optics are not the only game in town, although just like some targets, it would be hard to see that lately.

Would you feel adequate going to a precision rifle match with your 4x or 6x scope? the feeling is the same when an iron sight shooter shows up at most major multigun matches lately.

trapr

[AlamoShooter]

its the "P" in our original organization. As Pat said, too many MD's and stage designers forget that optics are not the only game in town, although just like some targets, it would be hard to see that lately.

Would you feel adequate going to a precision rifle match with your 4x or 6x scope? the feeling is the same when an iron sight shooter shows up at most major multigun matches lately.

trapr

Like I said two years agooo. "A 4x scope just can not make a close shot at long distance . I am learning just how much I don't know

[outerlimits]

I'm with you Jamie. Shooting 1/3 size targets at 100-150 does nothing for me. Gimme the 350-400 flashers or larues. I like the ballistic challenges and just the fact that it's a rifle, nota handgun.

[AlamoShooter]

I'm with you Jamie. Shooting 1/3 size targets at 100-150 does nothing for me. Gimme the 350-400 flashers or larues. I like the ballistic challenges and just the fact that it's a rifle, nota handgun.

Brace your self brother , You will be told what you like in just a few post

[outerlimits]

Been doing this longer than most and know what ilike. Fly out with trapr for our memorial day 3 gun. We'll be going out to 360 or so, bur we'll have a few a 5 Yds as well.

Edited May 19, 2010 by outerlimits

[Charles Bond]

I vote for more of the longer range targets (past 250 yards) in rifle and I would also like to see us return to some shots in pistol past 35 yards. This is a sport that centers on shooting. Your "test" in a match should be about more than just how fast you can run or how quickly one can pull the trigger.

But if all you have to use as a target is a 5 inch plate, keep that under 200 yards and buy some proper sized flashers for more distant targets.

Edited May 19, 2010 by Charles Bond

[bigbrowndog]

Jamie as I stated earlier i do not have a problem with proper sized targets getting beyond 300ish yards, but I do feel that the skills needed for the intermediate targets are being lost.

also, only you will be told what you like and don't like.

trapr

[P.E. Kelley]

I really do not know much about 3 Gun . I did not even know it was called "Practical 3 gun" And not much satisfaction to a target that you can not find or see with plain vision.

I have no intention of hosting a large event = I have paid my dues over the years

Please understand that I meant no disrespect to you Jamie. I know you have paid your dues and then some.

It is understood that you have given more back to the Shooting Sports than you have drawn. Thank you.

While you may feel that you do not know much about 3 Gun your finishes at major events proves you know how to play!

For the record, I intentionally did not capitalize the (P) in practical as I used it as a descriptive term not a proper name.

Yours in Sport

Patrick

[abn-rgr]

I like 300 and in. My opinion. 400 and under are OK, but make the 400 at least a 4 MOA like Trapr said.

[bigbrowndog]

I just spoke with Jamie, and he was "practically" in tears,because soooo many of us have jumped his case because we didn't agree with his opinion. and he said "I'm never gonna post another thing on this silly forum again, cuz nobody knows nuthin anyway" I told him to settle down and get over it, but all he said was "you can't make me".

Then the immortal words of dogs bollux came to me, and I said, Jamie,...........Remember, as always,...... you're wrong and I hung up the phone, and decided to post this so everyone could PM him and console him privately

Trapr

[M ammo]

I just spoke with Jamie, and he was "practically" in tears,because soooo many of us have jumped his case because we didn't agree with his opinion. and he said "I'm never gonna post another thing on this silly forum again, cuz nobody knows nuthin anyway" I told him to settle down and get over it, but all he said was "you can't make me".

Then the immortal words of dogs bollux came to me, and I said, Jamie,...........Remember, as always,...... you're wrong and I hung up the phone, and decided to post this so everyone could PM him and console him privately

Trapr

And Hey if you beat me,, you have to know something about 3 Gun,, I'm not the best,, 3 Gunner,, but I'm not the worst..

Stage 8 baby!!!! Sorry,, but that was the best stage of my life,, I have to live in that for just a little longer,,,

Jamie may be allot of things, One of them is a good 3 Gunner..

Jim M ammo

[AlamoShooter]

That was some funny stuff, But I did not get "Nuttin From No One" Funny the phone call from Trapr Man sounded different on my end of the phone.

Patrick -That was a nice note ,Thank you, But I did not take any offense at all , I did not know my response could be taken like that.

I sent Patrick a PM The guy has class so does Trapr he called me today just to make sure I was not offended

It is very cool to have friends.

I find as I get older my appreciation for friends and different Opinions gets stronger.

I like that the forum lets us develop a description of what we like and dislike. Our Opinions Evolve .

Cool

Edited May 20, 2010 by AlamoShooter

[Brian Payne]

My most memorable long range rifle stage was at the 2007 USPSA Multigun Nationals in Tulsa. 325 yrd. paper IPSC targets. It was neat because it forced you to call your shot and move on, no waiting to see the flash or hear ring.

Obviously this sort of stage would be a nightmare for any match director when it came to scoring and reset, but it was a unique experience none the less.

[Fullauto_Shooter]

My most memorable long range rifle stage was at the 2007 USPSA Multigun Nationals in Tulsa. 325 yrd. paper IPSC targets. It was neat because it forced you to call your shot and move on, no waiting to see the flash or hear ring.

Obviously this sort of stage would be a nightmare for any match director when it came to scoring and reset, but it was a unique experience none the less.

I remember those targets too - they were the catalyst that caused me to ditch the EOTECH and go with a magnified optic. Also remember waiting more than 4 hours to shoot this stage because it was so backed up with the ROs having to drive down and back between every shooter to score targets. Perhaps the worst stage, in terms of shooter throughput, in the history of 3-gun??

Edited January 4, 2012 by Fullauto_Shooter

[landshark45]

Steel targets out to 500yds and 600yds is very doable for iron sights. The operator must understand his machine to be successful. I would agree as said earlier that 4minute targets should be used past 400yds. I watch a shooter at Cccshooters in college station navigate stages out to 500yds plus each month successfully. Often he does much better than optic equipped shooters. Truly this guy knows his iron machine.... Go Aggunner!!!

[jwfuhrman]

Not a lot of shooters have access to ranges to practice that stuff.

That is the main problem. Most ranges that have a Rifle bay have out to 200, maybe 300. Some are lucky enough to have 600(some CMP clubs). I've been making some Flash Targets similar to MGM's using 2/3rd size IPSC AR500 instead of a Round Plate, using those past 400, 223 55gr American Eagle still makes it "flash". I've got out to 500 yards at home, and 1200+ on one of our farms a mile away.

Hell, the club I run my half of the INMG Series at is Pistol bays only, and I have only 35 yards to deal with, which REALLY makes being a good MD difficult but I make it work. 2in targets at max distance, lots of barricades and stuff to shoot around, 1/2 size paper for rifle.

I'm curious as to weather Hockey Pucks would hold up.... I'm also designing a Popper array to be enclosed, to simulate shooting into a room from 25+ yards with Rifle. I think if I do it right, I wont get ricochet's straight back, but that can happen even with pistol.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Jon Fuhrman

[Smokin]

Long range targets just introduces more sophistication into the marksmanship aspect of multi-gun. Ive shot "long range tactical" matches for years with MOA targets out to 600+ yards. Also don't forget that NRA high power shooters have been shooting targets at 200, 300, and 600 yards with iron sights unsupported (no monopods off of magazines) in off hand, seated, and prone positions for decades. Shooting isn't just about squeezing a round off and "hosing" the target with futility. Read the wind, understand the conditions and know your ballistics. Its just maturing the sport.