wide45 Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Bad question. You get A's by doing the things you need to, to shoot A's. You go fast when you do the things you need to do, to go fast. Its possible to do both. Going slow does not mean you are shooting A's. Shooting A's does not mean you are going slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBlaster Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 You can only shoot 95+% A's if your watching your sights, which means that if your shooting all A's as fast as you can then that is your current % classification, if you increase your eye speed so that you can see your sights faster, along with other training, then that will make you a faster shooter of A's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 I've won many stages not only with all A's but with the fastest time as well.be And there we have the secret to winning: All A's with the fastest time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 I've won many stages not only with all A's but with the fastest time as well.be And there we have the goal: All A's with the fastest time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBlaster Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Well, I think we have it figured out!! A's really Fast, or really Fast A's. either way equals the best result!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Sorry John, that was a confusing sentence. I knew it, but for some reason felt like leaving it. But Big Dave and Tdean nailed it. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 you can see what you need to see AND shoot all A's as fast as you cannot do either Damn Brian, That needs to be printed on the cover page of book #2. The entire goal in one sentence. That's pretty profound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwmagnus Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Wow I hate to muck it up being an IDPA revolver shooter but here it goes anyway. Being a SS in SSR I really don't feel very qualified with all the Masters and GM's that hang out here but I do try to be a good student and learn from those more accomplished at this action shooting stuff. This has been a battle with me all year...speed vs accuracy. Generally speaking I shoot 90-95% points in all my matches. I'm generally very pleased with the points but not so with my times. At my level I have to think speed. Too many times I hold off the shot after seeing what I need from the sights just to get a better down zero hit. Okay I told you in advance I was going to muck up all this A, B, C hit stuff with IDPA lingo. Just shot another match tonight did well in all but one stage just fell asleep at the trigger in the second half of the stage and shot way too slow. First half went fast and both halfs were the same in the accuracy department but the time ate my lunch! Last month shot IDPA Natl's finished 4th 297.30 -51points. 3rd place was 292.82 -82points and the winner was 291.73 -90points. My accuracy was about a 15-20 second advantage but I still got smoked. Granted it was a tight competition 18 satges and some 230 rounds but 4th is still 4th. Man it's sure hard to feel like speed isn't important with results like this. It's been the same story all year. 12 months ago I came into IDPA from a bullseye background and everyone said great cause you know how to shoot and speed will come. I'm still waiting!!!!! Hey I know it's only been a year and only 7 months with the round gun thing and these things take time but I'v never been real long on patience. I'm pretty pleased with my progress so far, but I gotts ta say (from my expierence) "if ya shoot'n all A's (down zeros) ya shoot'n too slow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 12 months ago I came into IDPA from a bullseye background and everyone said great cause you know how to shoot and speed will come. I'm still waiting!!!!! Hey I know it's only been a year and only 7 months with the round gun thing and these things take time but I'v never been real long on patience. I'm pretty pleased with my progress so far, but I gotts ta say (from my expierence) "if ya shoot'n all A's (down zeros) ya shoot'n too slow! In my experience; speed doesn't come, it's outside time that goes by slower. When I'm shooting well, it feels about as fast as I shot when I was in B class. The sights still bounce around at about the same speed. But, the time on the timer is a whole lot less once I get done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 No one ever said speed isn't important. Shoot A's as quickly as you can. "Too many times I hold off the shot after seeing what I need from the sights just to get a better down zero hit." That quote right there sums up where the problem is. Remember we don't need to hit the A (or the -0) we just need to aim at the A, as long as it hits in the square (or 8 inch circle for IDPA) we are good to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froglegs Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 It seems this is a choice of being able to duplicate the score, can I do this every time? it depends on the stage. Some stages can be shot with all a's just as fast as alpha charlies some cannot. The difference between the two is clearly not understood by all, the vote split by 50/50 proves positive! The longer the shot the more the A/C thing comes into play is just one issue. Here's an example, if you take three targets(uspsa) place them about one meter apart the fastest way to shoot them is with the gun on the move period(physics)... if you start at one end of the array the first shot just enters the A zone then on the other end of the A zone on that target followed by the same pattern on the rest. It will become obvious to the shooter at a certain distance that this same thing applies to even getting into the C zone applies to the greater the distance the targets are engaged at, the hits should be nearly horizontal with nearly equal split times. THE distance that effect this result would be proportional to the shooters class, the better the shooter the longer the distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 That may apply if you're shooting a gun that doesn't recoil and are capable of 0.01 splits. But in reality with .15-.18 splits (close target) you have the time to stop the gun on each target and must anyways. The other reality is that you ARE going to drop points, taking too much time to avoid this will hurt your score. But the intent should be to shoot as clean as possible, trading points for speed rarely pays off. TGO has a good explanation: http://www.robleatham.com/answers040910.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwmagnus Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 That quote right there sums up where the problem is. Remember we don't need to hit the A (or the -0) we just need to aim at the A, as long as it hits in the square (or 8 inch circle for IDPA) we are good to go. Yep I 100% agree a down zero is a down zero anywhere in the circle but old habits die hard. Guess something in the greymatter is programed for X's. Can't explain why but I know sometimes when I see what I need to see from the sights I don't break the shot at that point there's a slight hesitation. That hesitation I call dead time really adds up over lots of stages. So now that we've identified the problem, HOW do ya FIX IT? I've recently gone to videoing each stage in a match and boy that tape tells the truth. Don't get me wrong I'm pleased with the progress but have a long way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwmagnus Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 In my experience; speed doesn't come, it's outside time that goes by slower. I also agree. I can't really judge speed WHILE shooting but after the fact it's clearer. When I'm performing "in the zone" (not often enought) it feels like it's slow motion but the times are usually really good. Hard to describe but I understand what you're saying. At the point where I'm at now it just helps if I go into the stage with a concious thought before the buzzer to "keep the speed up and watch the front sight". I fall victim to cadence shooting instead of breaking the shot at the moment the sights are good to go. Thanks for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwmagnus Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 ....trading points for speed rarely pays off.TGO has a good explanation: http://www.robleatham.com/answers040910.htm Thanks for the link very informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 You fix it in practice. Force yourself to break the shot when it will hit anywhere in the A zone. If you can identify when you are creating dead time, you can eliminate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old506 Posted October 1, 2011 Share Posted October 1, 2011 I found this taking my regular trip to "The Library", my monthly journey to the past where todays GM's were once B's & A's. After Ben Stoeger's Pre-Nationals bull-headed approach to A's (basically proclaiming to the world that he was going to squeeze every A out of every target and forget about speed) and Flex's bold prediction (after hearing Ben's proclamation) that if Ben held to it he would win, I thought that I would bring this back. Although it hasn't changed my thinking about he importance of A (it was always important), it does solidify what needs to be the focus and how I need to practice, what I need to see and what needs to be seen after the beep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoldasLions Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I wish we could see the classification of each voter. Seeing who voted for what would tell the better tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted October 3, 2011 Author Share Posted October 3, 2011 By Class it becomes even more important. You may be the fastest gunslinger in town, but what will happen when you ride into a town where everyone's as fast as you? faster? Nothing left but points and the prospect of an error by the competition. It's fun seeing these ancient threads revived... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriver71 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Thanks guys for the great thread. I'm still learning this game. I'm a B class in open and always looking for ways to improve. If I can shoot as fast as anyone else then it seems to me to be about movement. Thats my "weakness". any help/tips there would be great! drills etc. D York Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jetdriver71 Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 Oh and by the way I'm switching from open to limited. Any tips there would be great too Steve. i have your dryfire books but feel I'm weak on movement. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikerburgess Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I voted true but for me the key word is ALL, if you are going hole matches with nothing but A's and have no misses on the steel, you probably need to pick it up some. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I voted true but for me the key word is ALL, if you are going hole matches with nothing but A's and have no misses on the steel, you probably need to pick it up some. Mike So...which targets are you going to drop your points on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 I voted true but for me the key word is ALL, if you are going hole matches with nothing but A's and have no misses on the steel, you probably need to pick it up some. Mike So...which targets are you going to drop your points on? Good point. I hope I can interject my feedback. I'll admit it... I can't always call my shots... however if I wanted to I could shoot all As... as I know I can shoot all As if I go real slow... I can even call shots pretty well shooting slow. However when I shoot faster... I can't call shots that well.... and I don't look at my targets for holes before I move on.... that is IF I can even see my holes! I "see" this as an issue trying to move to A/Master... but it's something I haven't learned just yet.... So I guess my answer is.... I don't know what targets I'd drop points on... but unless I shoot like a snail... I won't get all As. Sorry to jump in on you bikerburgess. Great thread as usual! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 So I guess my answer is.... I don't know what targets I'd drop points on... but unless I shoot like a snail... I won't get all As. Your not calling shots at speed, so you shoot faster? Maku mozo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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