40 S&W and Clays

[cws357]

Gotta question, anyone (and I know some are) using Clays for .40 S&W minor or IDPA loads? Currently I’m loading a 155gr Rainer over 3.6grs of Clays. Out of by G35 it gives me about a 131PF. I load on a Lee Load Master, which has its own issues and problems (a number of them). Anyways, last batch I loaded some were charged with VERY light loads, some in the 2.0gr range. I know this because I when to classify last weekend and had several “pops”. Two of them left the barrel and bullet struck the target, the third did not leave the barrel. At that point I quit for the day. Pulling all of the bullets now.

My question, is Clays know to not work well with extremely light loading? I will be replacing the Lee with a Hornady LNL AP in a few months; I hope the Hornady does better with metering Clays. Who has or is using Clays from a LNL, please give me some feedback on that.

Thanx

[salilus]

I load 3.2 - 3.3 of PLAIN clays behind a 180 moly. They feel very soft, but make about a 145pf. I do this on a Lee Pro 1000.

[Bear23]

Clays works well with light loads. Not advised for major in .40. I used around 3gr of powder with a 180 .40/10mm lead. wonderful, light and accurate.

[Sgt Smith]

I use 3.3 grains of Clays under a 180 grain bullet, in a G-22 and G-35 with a standard spring with no problems. Accurate out to 35-40 yards and comfortable to shoot.

[cws357]

Thanks all, I know Clays is a good powder and once I have adjusted how I operate making it more consistent I will go back to using it. Do you take "special" precautions when loading with Clays? Like graphite in the powder reservoir? Or wiping the reservoir with a dryer sheet to reduce static, to allow for better powder drops, etc.....

[kbeck76]

Thanks all, I know Clays is a good powder and once I have adjusted how I operate making it more consistent I will go back to using it. Do you take "special" precautions when loading with Clays? Like graphite in the powder reservoir? Or wiping the reservoir with a dryer sheet to reduce static, to allow for better powder drops, etc.....

I've reloaded Clays a good bit in my Hornady LNL without any issues. I don't think you need to do anything special to use Clays.

Kevin

[Sgt Smith]

I think I consciously try to keep the reservoir at least half way full, allowing the weight to push the powder down and keep it flowing smoothly. Other than that no special considerations.

[Beans]

I am using 2.9 Grains of Clays with a Magma mold home cast 180 Gr LRN bullet, cast from wheel weights in my G35. I also use this load in my G23 for plinking.

These are loaded on a Dillon 650.

I shoot about 500 rds a month and have not had any problems with this combo yet.

PF 180 gr x 735 FPS = 132 PF

For some unknown reason my G35 with a Storm Lake barrel didn't like the 180 Gr Magma TC bullets

Nothing special done justing keeping the powder hopper 1/3 or fuller when reloading

Edited April 29, 2010 by Beans

[dejadoo]

I'm purchasing some Clays tomorrow to work up a few loads with lead, molly coated and jacketed bullets. What COL are all of you using?

These will be out of an XDM for myself.

[Jman]

Hodgdon says a 1.125 OAL with 3.6 grains of Clays under a 155 grain bullets will travel approx 854 FPS. BUT your velocity

should be approx. 30 FPS faster if you use a stock OEM barrel. You "could" back off a couple tenths and chrono.***

You'll still be in the 130 PF range.

***you do own or have regular access to a chronograph...right?

When ALL else fails read my signature line.

[kevin c]

3.2 straight Clays over a 180 gr JHP at 1.135" COL works very well for me (135-137 PF out of my G35). Of course, while it may be a common load, it isn't in the Hodgdon manual any more, and you use it at your own risk, etc., etc..

I have a small aquarium pump attached to the side of the hopper with rubber bands that runs when I am loading with light charges of Clays. It may be partly my fevered imagination, but I think the vibration makes the drops are just a little bit more consistent now.

I had not heard of deliberately adding graphite to the powder measure/powder to facilitate the powder drop. I know that graphite is used by powder manufactures to coat some of their powder granules/flakes, but that it is used not just for lubricant effects, but also because it alters the burn rate. I'd worry that the powder might not burn the same with something extra added to it.

[CocoBolo]

I can answer the LNL questions. I use Clays in my SS 45 Loads, and with the Pistol Insert the LNL powder measures works very well and makes consistent drops. I sometimes use my LNL powder measure on my XL650, I like it better than the Dillon measure. Never put any kind of lube on a LNL powder measure its the start of something bad. http://www.sashooter.com/gallery/main.php?g2_itemId=749

[dejadoo]

***you do own or have regular access to a chronograph...right?

Absolutely!!! And I'll be setting it up next week to run a few loads (borrowed from a family member).

In the mean time I picked up a pound of Clays a couple of days ago and loaded up a few cartridges today; it metered VERY well - so well in fact that several times I weighed ten throws and I'll be darned if it wasn't EXACTLY 10 times the amount of the load.

I'll be trying several of them on some steel tomorrow and I'm hoping the clouds of smoke will not be anything like the Accurate No. 2 I shot last week with lead.

[Beans]

Clays works well with light loads. Not advised for major in .40. I used around 3gr of powder with a 180 .40/10mm lead. wonderful, light and accurate.

I am using 2.9 Grs of Clays with a 180 Lead bullet cast from a magna mold. Power factor is 735PFS X 180 Grs = 132 PF This is out of G35.

[gordonm1]

I think I had some 45 ACP squibs with clays. I used to leave the powder in the measure. It's dry here but I wondered if the powder in the measure got clumps.

[Bongo Boy]

Who has or is using Clays from a LNL, please give me some feedback on that.Thanx

Probably around 5,000 rds of .45 with Clays and the LNL and now about 1,000 rds of 40 SW. What I find is the charges appear to be fairly consistent after you've given a fresh load of powder some time to settle. I generally throw a good 30 to 50 charges, 10 at a time, before I finally start to run. Shooting for 3.4gr under a 180gr TC bullet, I was getting 10 charges routinely weighing in at 34.0x gr. I'll also pull singles off the press after 50-100 rds just for a check, and they are typically well under 0.1 g from the target...not unusual to see my scale read 0.03-0.05gr within target.

I also find that very small changes in the Hornady pistol metering plug result in 0.05 gr changes to thrown charge. I'd say a full quarter turn of that small pistol plug might yield a 0.1gr delta in throw weight, if not more.

Happy loading!

[Odawgp]

I'm using a LnL and clays in both 45acp and 40S&W everything runs like a top,

I spent the extra coin for a micro meter insert from Hornady that works a little better than the original pistol meter insert. A powder through expander is a nice addition if you don't have one (mine is a "Powder funnel" PTX)

Hodgdon doesn't seam to list any 40 S&W loads over 3.5grs while using 180gr JHP's

I have a suspicion that hodgdon's data is very very conservative almost to the point of out date

- In 1998 I purchased "the complete reloading" for 40S&W that showed data from all of the major powder and bullet manufactures hodgdons 180gr JHP data is the same now as it was then. Sierras data didn't include clays as a option

-Now in Sierra's 5th addition 40S&W data lists a starting weight of 3.6grs and a max of 5.0grs of clays using a 180gr JHP.

I am shooting 3.8grs of clays under 180gr missouri hardcast O.A.L. 1.155 out of a Sig Pro 4" making 166-67PF consistently

Edited June 15, 2010 by Odawgp

[Carmine]

I use a Dillon Square Deal for my loading bench.

As for Clays in .40 s/w.....I use 4.6 grains of Clays with a 180 Grain jacketed truncated round.

My OAL is 1.205"...my STI Eagle loves it!

Ciao.

[Bongo Boy]

I use a Dillon Square Deal for my loading bench.

As for Clays in .40 s/w.....I use 4.6 grains of Clays with a 180 Grain jacketed truncated round.

My OAL is 1.205"...my STI Eagle loves it!

Ciao.

You guys are making me feel a lot better about the upper end of the charges. I honestly surprised at the 5.0gr max cited above...wouldn't think that leaves a lot of room for seating a 180 grainer.

But anyway...I'm as happy as can be with anything between 3.0 and 3.4gr so far, under the 180 lead, and in fact I'd have to really concentrate to notice all that much difference in that range, although at 3.0gr it's downright spooky that the 5" M&P still cycles. But, 500 rounds Saturday and 300 today, not a single malf of any kind.

[Odawgp]

I use a Dillon Square Deal for my loading bench.

As for Clays in .40 s/w.....I use 4.6 grains of Clays with a 180 Grain jacketed truncated round.

My OAL is 1.205"...my STI Eagle loves it!

Ciao.

You guys are making me feel a lot better about the upper end of the charges. I honestly surprised at the 5.0gr max cited above...wouldn't think that leaves a lot of room for seating a 180 grainer.

But anyway...I'm as happy as can be with anything between 3.0 and 3.4gr so far, under the 180 lead, and in fact I'd have to really concentrate to notice all that much difference in that range, although at 3.0gr it's downright spooky that the 5" M&P still cycles. But, 500 rounds Saturday and 300 today, not a single malf of any kind.

As was I, I double triple checked to make sure I wasn't reading data from a different powder

The sierra data from the late 90's I have look Identical to the "5th edition" with the exception that clays is now listed in the newer data were as it wasn't even an option in the older books I have.

I have been shooting 3-3.5 grs of clays for years it wasn't until recently when I decided to start shooting major loads that I went back through all my data and couldn't find anything using clays that would make major.

I just happened by the SG store Sunday and saw a unwrapped/open Sierra 5th edition manual and decided to take peak and what I saw was WOW different from the their earlier data.

I won't get anywhere near needing 5grs shooting a lead 180gr pill. I only need to make about 925-950fps to make PF and that is achieved with 3.8-4.2 grs of clays shooting lead. If shooting JHP's one might need to load 4.2-4.6 grs to get 925-950fps and still make MPF

[Carmine]

You guy's are 100% correct in you estimation of making MPF using Clays powder.

I'm going to use Clays till the end of this year...then I'll consider changing powder.

Thanks for the feedback.

Ciao.

[GrumpyOne]

I'm using 3.0 grains and a 180 gran TC lead bullet @ 1.205 in an XDM 40. Very soft shooting, fun round.

[DougCarden]

I have been using CLAYS for almost 20 years...here are some observations...

I use Dillon equipment, so that is all I have knowledge of. Less that 2.8 grains of CLAYS can and will "bridge" in powder measures. The flakes are big and light enough that they will lock up and not get a full throw into the case. You can use the fish tank unit to vibrate the measure, good idea. It is good to not let the measure get less that 1/2 full when running light loads. If you have the Dillon powder alert that runs the ram down into the measure body that will help too. It also helps to take the powder measure apart and use some high grit automotive sandpaper and polish the bejeeezus out of the hopper area for the powder to fall through.

CLAYS is great for minor 38special, minor .40, major .45....in fact that is all I load in .45 and lead bullets. I did try loading lead 180s and 200s with CLAYS to major.....too much smoke and didn't like the accuracy, plus it is too close to the line on pressure for my taste!

Hope this is helpful,

DougC

[Carmine]

Doug's correct.

I may consider a switch in powders come the new year.

.40 MPF is getting pretty close to the max that you can push on the round,cartrige case and gun.

Ciao.

[kamikaze1a]

To the OP. As for your light throws, the problem is probably the Lee powder measure. Most adjustable measures have a wide chamber and adjusts by shortening the length of the chamber. The Lee adjusts by decreasing the diameter of the measure chamber. Light loads=small diameter=bridging of the powder "flakes". Best solution if you want to continue using that measure...tap the measure at the upstroke to assure filling of the bushing and again at the bottom of the stroke to assure complete dispensing. You can do this by way of the press handle too by topping/bottoming hard or a couple of times. Or use a bulkier powder that requires a bigger bushing.

I've seen conversions to allow use of other measures on your "powder through" expanding die. They even had linkages to actuate the measure. beau coup bucks though...kind of defeats the cost effectiveness of the Lee loaders.