SIRT pistol

[SeaTact]

Just want to post a link to another SIRT review from pistol-forum.com. It's a well-thought out post with some great pics, and complements what we have in this thread. I'm still making use of my own but the thought of putting some non-SIRT sights on the slide is intriguing. I'm hoping a SIRT with a reciprocating-type slide becomes available soon...

http://pistol-forum....s-with-the-SIRT

Edited May 5, 2012 by SeaTact

[Yoder]

I've had mine now for about two months. It works great. I take it to work and practice behind the office. Since it's "just a toy" there's no problem. Trigger feel, and grip are just about perfect compared to my G17. I'm really glad I chose this over some of the other in gun practice lasers. It's really helped on my draws, reloads and trigger control. In my opinion it was worth the money to have pretty realistic practice even at work.

[wes777]

Got mine, practiced for a week, then shot a match. 90 % A hits. 2nd in production. Now to pour on some speed.

[Mike Hughes]

Ordered one with an extra mag today, also ordered up sights to match my G34. Cant wait.

I got mine in December and I love it. It's worth every penny.

I wish I ordered extra mags like you did. The mags are rubber, the weight and center of gravity can be adjusted. Much better than using empty mags.

Other things I like:

Repeat shots. This helps a lot with shooting on the move and transitions. I don't have to modify my competition gun to get laser practice with repeat shots.

The laser doesn't lie and keeps you honest. You can fool yourself into thinking that the shot was good with regular dry-fire.

The take-up laser tells you how much you're moving the gun during draw, transitions and moving. Less-movement = faster times.

The green laser works at the range and can troubleshoot why shots are going where they do. Especially useful when practicing shooting around cover. Saves ammo.

The trigger is adjustable for location, over-travel, break location, take-up force, trigger break force, sear engagement. I have it adjusted very close to my gun.

The mags fit my Glock.

It accepts aftermarket sights.

If fits my holster.

The lasers can be aimed.

MOST IMPORTANT!!!

It is very quiet, the click is as loud as a computer mouse. My wife appreciates the lack of "clack-clack-click" of my Glock during dry-fire with a gun in the house.

The spot won't be on target if you aren't on the front sight so I don't look for the laser spot. I learned that pretty quick.

Bro you nailed the Design Criteria sheet when I made this. You even nailed being quite. ha, this one was for my wife. Airsoft didn't cut it with the noise, gas, denting plaster walls etc. One thought though… try adjust the trigger break force to much heavier than your live fire pistol. I have jacked mine (one of mine) up to 12 lbs to really work trigger finger muscles. I have found my trigger mechanics to be orders of magnitude better. I am shooting a stock G19 now for Production class and not noticing a performance issue with the stock trigger. Just a suggestion.

[daves_not_here]

...One thought though… try adjust the trigger break force to much heavier than your live fire pistol. I have jacked mine (one of mine) up to 12 lbs to really work trigger finger muscles. I have found my trigger mechanics to be orders of magnitude better. I am shooting a stock G19 now for Production class and not noticing a performance issue with the stock trigger. Just a suggestion.

Mike,

Yup, racked up the trigger weight, I did that just after you posted your video a while back. It got me more "solid" on the trigger.

I appreciate the videos and they have been valuable to me. Looks cold and wet where you shoot.

I also sometimes set the trigger weight way down and work on transitions and sensitivity for the trigger take up.

Now prepping the trigger on my real gun feels more like "riding the edge of reset" through groups of targets. Hard to explain, it's in the "smooth is fast" category.

I guess you can sum up both methods as:

drills for gross and fine motor control development under the heading of "trigger mechanics".

It's similar to batting, where it's important to swing the bat with the speed and strength to send it over the wall but you must also have the control to hit the ball. Gotta have both.

IT ISN'T SELF-EVIDENT HOW VALUABLE SIRT PISTOLS ARE TO SHOOTERS WITH LIMITED TIME

I don't know how you could convey this without seeming like you're on a marketing campaign but I'm sure part-time shooters like me would be grateful.

I feel like driving that marketing bandwagon a bit...

I really wasn't sold on SIRT until I actually had one in my hands. It has made a noticeable improvement in my progression as a pistol shooter. I am keeping up with others who are putting many more rounds downrange than I am. I can undeniably say that it is because of the SIRT.

It's always around and I do moving drills when I go from room to room for something.

Keeping the gun up and coming around doorways has improved my shooting around cover.

I can run through the refinement and repetition dry fire book without having to rack a slide. YAY!

I know it's hard to actually define the difference between having to rack the slide or not but that feature alone is worth the price

I remember getting really sloppy with dryfire without a laser.

The nice green laser showing where the shot would've hit keeps me honest and it also shows whether I was slapping or jerking the trigger.

My support hand only shooting improved.

I jacked up the trigger weight and do figure eights and transitions WHO.

Gross motor control for trigger finger, fine motor control for sight alignment.

Transitions with the take up laser has got me to WARP SPEED with weak hand.

A versatile training tool! a cat toy! blah blah, won class, blah blah blah made expert... the saga continues...

I'll also thank you for my wife ; )

DNH

[SeaTact]

Just to reiterate-- I'll be first in line when you release a SIRT pistol with a rackable slide or a trigger device that releases most of the spring tension after the trigger break. Thanks, mike, for a great product

[J.P. Thomas]

Looks pretty Cool ... but $$$

[GlockDoc]

Looks pretty Cool ... but $$

If you actually use the thing, the money you save on ammo will quickly make up the price...

[daves_not_here]

Yup, it is a leap of faith for the price. See my previous post about how the value isn't self evident.

I did the math on a laser and a reset trigger for my glock. It was about the same price and I had to dicker with my competition gun for the reset trigger.

I ended up with a green laser I can use in daylight at the range with a red takeup laser for looking at where I am pointing during my draw and for transitions. I cant' tell you how many inefficiencies that cleared up.

Reloads and transitions are where you win a stage. Ask any master level shooter.

The only regret is that I paid extra shipping to buy two extra magazines for practice. When you by one get a couple extra mags. I would've worn out real magazines by now the number of reloads I've done.

The way I train when I attend a practice match is to look at scores and choose a stage to work on. Go back and shoot the stage with the SIRT. Learn what I did wrong, how to do it better, then run through it with live ammo once or twice. I can put a price on the ammo but not on the time saved.

NEVER regretted the purchase. Mike is a good engineer and has made a good tool. I do hope the reputation of the SIRT pistol isn't hurt by the red laser only econo model. The green laser is worth it!

DNH

P.S. I have reduced targets in my office and I just shot 30+ rounds at over 10 targets in my room with a reload while writing and editing this post. Dry-fire drill with forum responses anyone?

[Mike Hughes]

Mike,

Yup, racked up the trigger weight, I did that just after you posted your video a while back. It got me more "solid" on the trigger.

I appreciate the videos and they have been valuable to me. Looks cold and wet where you shoot.

I also sometimes set the trigger weight way down and work on transitions and sensitivity for the trigger take up.

Now prepping the trigger on my real gun feels more like "riding the edge of reset" through groups of targets. Hard to explain, it's in the "smooth is fast" category.

I guess you can sum up both methods as:

drills for gross and fine motor control development under the heading of "trigger mechanics".

It's similar to batting, where it's important to swing the bat with the speed and strength to send it over the wall but you must also have the control to hit the ball. Gotta have both.

IT ISN'T SELF-EVIDENT HOW VALUABLE SIRT PISTOLS ARE TO SHOOTERS WITH LIMITED TIME

I don't know how you could convey this without seeming like you're on a marketing campaign but I'm sure part-time shooters like me would be grateful.

I feel like driving that marketing bandwagon a bit...

I really wasn't sold on SIRT until I actually had one in my hands. It has made a noticeable improvement in my progression as a pistol shooter. I am keeping up with others who are putting many more rounds downrange than I am. I can undeniably say that it is because of the SIRT.

It's always around and I do moving drills when I go from room to room for something.

Keeping the gun up and coming around doorways has improved my shooting around cover.

I can run through the refinement and repetition dry fire book without having to rack a slide. YAY!

I know it's hard to actually define the difference between having to rack the slide or not but that feature alone is worth the price

I remember getting really sloppy with dryfire without a laser.

The nice green laser showing where the shot would've hit keeps me honest and it also shows whether I was slapping or jerking the trigger.

My support hand only shooting improved.

I jacked up the trigger weight and do figure eights and transitions WHO.

Gross motor control for trigger finger, fine motor control for sight alignment.

Transitions with the take up laser has got me to WARP SPEED with weak hand.

A versatile training tool! a cat toy! blah blah, won class, blah blah blah made expert... the saga continues...

I'll also thank you for my wife ; )

DNH

wow..your insights are dialed in… I feel kind of sheepish on replying for fear of appearing like a collusion for marketing… ha

muzzle accountability-->perfect practice

But a few follow up points…. When I made the first prototype it was really just for shooting on the move. One day (on my cold we and rainy range on the commune) I was doing left-right drills (5 yrds left, decelerate hit steel at 15 yrds, 5yrds right, decelerate, hit steel 15 yrds..repeat) and I used the prototype which was glockmeister (heavily Dremelled) resetting trigger, red laser JB welded in an old glock slide and a soldered in switch…wahllla Shot Indication, Resetting Trigger (no take up indicator at that point). Anyhow I was doing the drill and missed the plate. no big deal. but I swear I had acceptable sight picture, I swear my trigger mechanics were dialed in, I swear I had follow through and didn't pull off… but in the end I swore out loud because it was a miss. Laser was still perfectly aligned to sights… issue..jackass in mirror.

I remember that moment like yesterday because it was huge revelation for me. I felt like I was always doing traditional dry fire like shooting basketball on a brick wall with no hoop. Sure mechanics can feel good but without a hoop for accountability…

Same principle with shooting. where is that muzzle exactly when we break the shot. Even if it is a super small acceptable accuracy zone and you are wickedly on the sights, that muzzle can move and be off target and we don't know it. Just this morning I was doing 40 yrd shots on 8" steel strong hand only for some isolation on trigger control. miss miss miss. I used the sirt and found out I was breaking the shot and pulling about 2:30 actually. (The reason for that is interesting), but I did about 3 min of SIRT trigger control strong and weak hand (strong hand gets tired ). Then hit some dry shots with my G19 and then went live bam.. cleaned up, owned it thereafter! No my next live fire session tomorrow AM is to hit the same drill first thing, un-calibrated (no warm up etc) and make sure I am on track for extreme trigger finger mechanics.

"High Volume, Self Diagnostic Sustainable Training"

I hate to be one to make new names for old sh!t but we are looking at calling SIRT training "High Volume, Self Diagnostic Sustainable Training" thats a mouthful but it is different than simply dryfiring. High volume because we don't mess around retrofitting and the SiRT is inert so we can pick up and get some shots in throughout the day. Practically we have to lower barrier to entry to train to make it sustainable. My goal is at least 7 training sessions a day. I take time in between short trainings so I get 'de-calibrated' and later on … bam draw or pick up SIRT and hit so target with a different acceptable accuracy zone than that last session. I have to use a combo of natural point of aim/sights to hit it and I get the Self Diagnostic because not only is the initial laser hit important but the laser sweep thereafter. Try this training protocol and put pressure on yourself and watch what your trigger mechanics really revert to under the self imposed time stress. Usually the 8:00 sweep is the tall tail sign of less than ideal trigger mechanics. The goal in the distributed learning model is to build into our auto response database…see target…assess acceptable accuracy zone…use necessary sights and natural aim combo…bam, send it. so our 1st presentation shots are as fast and accurate as humanly possible!

So much for a quick response… this got my mind spinning on some more drills with integrated self diagnostics for beginners though.. cheers

Edited July 9, 2012 by Mike Hughes

[daves_not_here]

Mike,

Thanks for the drills!

I think you're adding to the value of SIRT rather than marketing when discussing drills and techniques on this forum. If you come out with a 1911 version the forum traffic might get out of control and that could be considered hype marketing.

On accountability: With no recoil, trigger mechanics aren't lost in muzzle rise. You have nowhere to hide. Just follow the bouncing ball, it will tell all.

Shooting is about what happens before the shot...

Shooting on the move:

I use the take up laser for the moving Anderson drills. Figure eights are my current focus. That takeup laser is instant feedback to my feet. I can test techniques and push limits. Laser on target tells me usable technique and speed. Then I make sure I maintain a good trigger press. It's bizarre how trigger press goes out the window when moving!

Honest Practice = Perfect Practice

Distance:

40+ yards isn't in every bay at the ranges I frequent so most of my longer range work is with the green laser. A streak of light tells a lot more than just a hole in a piece of paper anyway. Also this eliminates the bullcrap stories I tell myself about whether I hit something during dry fire. I admit to questioning the SIRT but mashing the trigger and aligning the sights tells me that the tool is good and it's operator error. It's a good reality check and I can get back to honest practice.

Auto response database

"Auto response database" is a useful term for me. I'd say that "database" describes the skills and techniques in general. Now it would be a matter of "migrating" that database into the subconscious to make it "auto response". Thanks!

The "auto response database" or subconscious skill set is of interest to me. I think these are valuable to both competitive and defensive shooters. Subconscious techniques kick in when we shoot cold or under stress. You're shooting from the subconscious skill set whether after waiting an hour to shoot a stage or being jumped by armed bad guys.

I try to be extra mindful of what I do when shooting cold. That is probably what I will do at the buzzer or under stress. I believe this also reveals what to focus on refining.

Self Diagnosis

Diagnosis to me means finding out why there is a the difference between what happened and what was desired. For me, shooting a gun is basically "aligning the gun with the target and making it go bang". If the intended target isn't hit then something wasn't aligned when it went bang. So, diagnosis starts there then I look at fundamentals...Okay, most of the time I usally blame the gun first.

Great stuff Mike!

DNH

Edited July 10, 2012 by daves_not_here

[Downrange58]

Mike,

Thanks for the drills!

I think you're adding to the value of SIRT rather than marketing when discussing drills and techniques on this forum. If you come out with a 1911 version the forum traffic might get out of control and that could be considered hype marketing.

On accountability: With no recoil, trigger mechanics aren't lost in muzzle rise. You have nowhere to hide. Just follow the bouncing ball, it will tell all.

Shooting is about what happens before the shot...

Shooting on the move:

I use the take up laser for the moving Anderson drills. Figure eights are my current focus. That takeup laser is instant feedback to my feet. I can test techniques and push limits. Laser on target tells me usable technique and speed. Then I make sure I maintain a good trigger press. It's bizarre how trigger press goes out the window when moving!

Honest Practice = Perfect Practice

Distance:

40+ yards isn't in every bay at the ranges I frequent so most of my longer range work is with the green laser. A streak of light tells a lot more than just a hole in a piece of paper anyway. Also this eliminates the bullcrap stories I tell myself about whether I hit something during dry fire. I admit to questioning the SIRT but mashing the trigger and aligning the sights tells me that the tool is good and it's operator error. It's a good reality check and I can get back to honest practice.

Auto response database

"Auto response database" is a useful term for me. I'd say that "database" describes the skills and techniques in general. Now it would be a matter of "migrating" that database into the subconscious to make it "auto response". Thanks!

The "auto response database" or subconscious skill set is of interest to me. I think these are valuable to both competitive and defensive shooters. Subconscious techniques kick in when we shoot cold or under stress. You're shooting from the subconscious skill set whether after waiting an hour to shoot a stage or being jumped by armed bad guys.

I try to be extra mindful of what I do when shooting cold. That is probably what I will do at the buzzer or under stress. I believe this also reveals what to focus on refining.

Self Diagnosis

Diagnosis to me means finding out why there is a the difference between what happened and what was desired. For me, shooting a gun is basically "aligning the gun with the target and making it go bang". If the intended target isn't hit then something wasn't aligned when it went bang. So, diagnosis starts there then I look at fundamentals...Okay, most of the time I usally blame the gun first.

Great stuff Mike!

DNH

Well said! I see shooters spending a lot of money on things to make them better shooters and I honestly doubt that they get the improvement they are looking for and I seriously doubt they get the quality practice that the SIRT offers... my transitions before I purchased the SIRT bordered between .45-.50 and now I am between .25-.32 with far better accuracy than ever before. From 7 yards i can consitantly hit 1 sec draw times with A hits, before i was happy with 1.35's. I can run 6 stages in my back yard in 15 minutes which is priceless. My movement is getting better and better as I constantly work on getting into and out of shooting positions with solid reloads, and I can get hundreds of quality trigger pulls in just a short amount of time. On live fire days, i can run through my drills with the SIRT before hand, or if im struggling with something live, i can pick up the SIRT and work through it. I almost never miss a day of practice because it is so accessible.... Best money I have ever spent on a sport..

[daves_not_here]

Downrange58,

"I almost never miss a day of practice because it is so accessible.... Best money I have ever spent on a sport." Completely agree!

Having a practice setup accessible gives me a quick "fix" for the days between live fire.

Here's one to try: Turn on the take up laser. Notice where it is when you're coming around cover to engage a target.

I've been taught to point the gun at the target when moving behind cover into position. It's quicker, more efficient, if only minor adjustments are required when rounding a barricade.

For me I try to get the take up laser coming on just after the edge of the barricade and as I break around the edge it's: target->sight picture->send it.

In the beginning the takeup laser was "somewhere" downrange. Now it's consistently close, sometimes on brown. With a little push out I've got target and sight picture almost simultaneously. I think this comes under Mike's "muzzle accountability = perfect practice" category.

I wonder if it's a DQ if you blast the edge of a barricade? It would definitely be a time loss from the distraction and a makeup for the ricochet.

DNH

[Mike Hughes]

Well said! I see shooters spending a lot of money on things to make them better shooters and I honestly doubt that they get the improvement they are looking for and I seriously doubt they get the quality practice that the SIRT offers... my transitions before I purchased the SIRT bordered between .45-.50 and now I am between .25-.32 with far better accuracy than ever before. From 7 yards i can consitantly hit 1 sec draw times with A hits, before i was happy with 1.35's. I can run 6 stages in my back yard in 15 minutes which is priceless. My movement is getting better and better as I constantly work on getting into and out of shooting positions with solid reloads, and I can get hundreds of quality trigger pulls in just a short amount of time. On live fire days, i can run through my drills with the SIRT before hand, or if im struggling with something live, i can pick up the SIRT and work through it. I almost never miss a day of practice because it is so accessible.... Best money I have ever spent on a sport..

Hey DR58, I tell you, your response gets me jacked up. Now if we can take your mind set of tracking gains, quantifying results, being accountable to yourself in results and hitting training, engaging in self diagnostics and not just throwing lead senselessly. Your cracking the code on getting high volume training in daily, carrying it over to the range. I would hazard a guess that you are hitting the range with self perceived deficiencies and working on those areas that require strengthening...

I am very partial to competitive shooting community because we get better and don't lean on BS like 'lets not use a shot timer', or the attitude of "that drill is not relevant because the sun and stars will be in a different location in a gun fight"…. or whatever. As I interface with other shooting communities I am shocked at 1) how little shooters actually train, 2) how reluctant shooters are to look in the ugly mirror and 3) the amount shooters in other venues want to pontificate and talk, debate, while they could have set up a drill and make strides in validating their points.

I don't want these words to be out of context, but my point is that you, DR58, are tracking results, getting gains, making self assessments/self-diagnostics and getting better,… we need to crack the code on this mentality across the board for the 52M handgun owners in the US. Not only is making gains accessible and simple, but heck, its fun! I think we get it as competitive shooters but shooters that choose not to compete for whatever reason seem to have great reluctance on accepting the tried and true concepts going back to miyamoto musashi, train, hardwire in motor neuron skills, build robust skills that produce high performance independent of mental, physical or environmental states. Granted competitive shooting is not the only thing to train, some appendix concealed carry, reloads from front pocket, threat discrimination/decision making with scenarios… we need to implement these training blocks in our personal practice (thankfully scenarios with proper safety protocol is quick and fun to set up!), but developing raw reliable speed and accuracy… that is a kick ass 1000 mile journey to be on!

[nick romero]

Hey Mike, I dont know if you have answered this question yet, but when do you plan on releasing the MP sirt pistol?

[Downrange58]

Well said! I see shooters spending a lot of money on things to make them better shooters and I honestly doubt that they get the improvement they are looking for and I seriously doubt they get the quality practice that the SIRT offers... my transitions before I purchased the SIRT bordered between .45-.50 and now I am between .25-.32 with far better accuracy than ever before. From 7 yards i can consitantly hit 1 sec draw times with A hits, before i was happy with 1.35's. I can run 6 stages in my back yard in 15 minutes which is priceless. My movement is getting better and better as I constantly work on getting into and out of shooting positions with solid reloads, and I can get hundreds of quality trigger pulls in just a short amount of time. On live fire days, i can run through my drills with the SIRT before hand, or if im struggling with something live, i can pick up the SIRT and work through it. I almost never miss a day of practice because it is so accessible.... Best money I have ever spent on a sport..

Hey DR58, I tell you, your response gets me jacked up. Now if we can take your mind set of tracking gains, quantifying results, being accountable to yourself in results and hitting training, engaging in self diagnostics and not just throwing lead senselessly. Your cracking the code on getting high volume training in daily, carrying it over to the range. I would hazard a guess that you are hitting the range with self perceived deficiencies and working on those areas that require strengthening...

I am very partial to competitive shooting community because we get better and don't lean on BS like 'lets not use a shot timer', or the attitude of "that drill is not relevant because the sun and stars will be in a different location in a gun fight"…. or whatever. As I interface with other shooting communities I am shocked at 1) how little shooters actually train, 2) how reluctant shooters are to look in the ugly mirror and 3) the amount shooters in other venues want to pontificate and talk, debate, while they could have set up a drill and make strides in validating their points.

I don't want these words to be out of context, but my point is that you, DR58, are tracking results, getting gains, making self assessments/self-diagnostics and getting better,… we need to crack the code on this mentality across the board for the 52M handgun owners in the US. Not only is making gains accessible and simple, but heck, its fun! I think we get it as competitive shooters but shooters that choose not to compete for whatever reason seem to have great reluctance on accepting the tried and true concepts going back to miyamoto musashi, train, hardwire in motor neuron skills, build robust skills that produce high performance independent of mental, physical or environmental states. Granted competitive shooting is not the only thing to train, some appendix concealed carry, reloads from front pocket, threat discrimination/decision making with scenarios… we need to implement these training blocks in our personal practice (thankfully scenarios with proper safety protocol is quick and fun to set up!), but developing raw reliable speed and accuracy… that is a kick ass 1000 mile journey to be on!

Mike I LOVE it when you use big words... I agree 100% and I am so grateful you have gone down this path!

Signed soon to be an A shooter...

Edited July 12, 2012 by Downrange58

[eric nielsen]

Mike, tell us when you're going to make a 1911 or 2011 model. Please. And make sure Colby invites you for a Top Guns show on H2.

Not sure how many threads i've started with 10,000 views, that's crazy.

[daves_not_here]

Eric,

10K views. Very cool! Maybe this will get pinned someday?

This is my latest combination of toys...er ah, shooting drill tool setup. I got inspired by another thread about swinger trapping or tracking...

SIRT and Matt Burkett Dry Fire Drills

Do these drills with the take up laser/shot indicator and just the shot indicator.

A'la Anderson, also do some with just the trigger prepped and do not fire for confirmation of sight acquisition.

The link for Burkett Dry Fire for swingers is below. You can change the speed and click-drag the barricade.

Burkett the Swinger

Tracking and Trapping

I close my eyes, open them as I draw, then get into the swing. Or, if there's a barricade I treat it like a flasher and just trap it.

Other Dry Fire Drills

This is his main page for his dry-fire drills. There's a tracking target app that I do the same drills starting with the eyes closed and also using the take up laser.

Burkett Dry Fires

Perfect Practice

This can become a lame exercise if you let it. I pay attention to tracking and scoring A zone hits both with head and body. This keeps it challenging occupying the mind as described in the "Overachievement" book by Eliot. I've also tried moving and shooting from the other room using the door frame as cover.

When practicing pay attention to:

• Bobble with tracking and movement change - keep the takeup laser on the A zone
  
• Trigger mechanics don't disturb tracking - keep tracking
  
• Time to good track. Acquiring the target from eyes closed to draw and on target. An idea could be to use a par timer but I haven't done this. I'd like to know how it works out.
  
• The usual fundamentals
  

My thoughts and feelings

Having the take up and shot indicating gives feedback on any inefficiencies or blown shots. Especially when tracking a swinger you can tell if you stopped tracking or kept the swing. Having the take up laser come on at the last part of presentation gives me an idea of how I'm pointing my body. If that little dot doesn't show up close to the target I know I'm getting lazy.

Shooting is all about what happens before the shot.

I've reduced the overshoot and bobbling dramatically. I also have more focus on the swinger. Instead of shooting at a brown blur I'm zeroing in on the A zone.

Hope this helps your skills,

DNH

Edited July 12, 2012 by daves_not_here

[jasonG36]

Just to piggy-back a little bit, I have had a SIRT for a few weeks now. I was definitely on the fence before buying one, mostly because of cost, but would already unhesitatingly recommend it.

First, I bought it for my use, with the dual-purpose intent that I at times have had the Glock as a duty weapon, and served as an instructor with the same, and sometimes for fun I shoot GSSF.

Honestly, for me the recoil management issue is significant enough that I am generally not using it for multiple quick shots. I am a huge believer in "specificity", so I don't want to get used to working timing, etc. on a double-tap (for instance) with that much of a swing in reality. Simply my preference.

That one, single negative out of the way, the SIRT is awesome. As I mentioned, I am using this for dry-fire training for a duty scenario, and I appreciate as much specificity as I can get. I have the SIRT trigger dialed-in to feel just like my trigger, and the ability to see the green laser when the shot actually breaks adds a level of feedback I have never had before (I do a LOT of dry fire), which used to result in much more live fire training than I otherwise would have done, just for that first shot-break feedback.

So, I would say the SIRT has already saved me $50 in ammo. And, again, I am mostly training for draw time and the ability to get that first shot into a kill zone. The SIRT is helping me to do that, and if a tool can take .2 sec off your draw-to-A-zone-hit time, which might save your life, how can you complain about cost?

Second, and the completely unforeseen, unintended benefit: I come from a 'sheepdog' family. Everyone is active military, LE, retired one of the above, whatever. In accordance, my 7 year-old son has been begging to shoot since he was 3, and *has* been shooting since he was 5. He has been able to recite the '4 rules' to you since before he went to school, and I started him not with a 'tiny pistol', but with a Blackhawk demonstrator, then with AirSoft after he demonstrated he could be safe, then with a pellet gun, and right now with the Advantage Arms .22 kit on a G17. He has not put the SIRT down since we got it, and while I don't use the take-up laser at all, we have used it with him extensively, just to reinforce the safety rules. This kid, who already 'knew' the rules, now has gotten visual feedback on what could happen if you are lazy and sweep the muzzle, and has completely eliminated the tense/beginner habit of finger on the trigger during reloads, transitions, etc. I would say that right now he is better on the firearms safety than 80% of the people I serve with, and given the obvious ergonomic difficulty a kid his age would have with the full-size gun, the extra trigger time has helped his accuracy, which is already pretty fair. Much like the claim about myself above, if using the SIRT can help my kids (and other beginners) become more proficient and safer shooters, earlier than they otherwise would be, what price do you put on that?

Bottom line is, I concur with DNH that it is truly what happens before the shot that makes the shot successful. In that regard the SIRT is a great tool. Above and beyond that, I will break even on ammo costs very soon based on how I was training v. how I am now, but even if the SIRT does not cut down on your own personal live fire and pay for itself in that way, I think the only way it can fail to pay for itself as regards my above-mentioned safety and proficiency benefits is if you don't use it as it was intended.

jfk

[Mike Hughes]

Few thoughts on multiple topics above

M&P SIRT

this is a big question, don't want to throw out dates without a more granular GANTT chart. To life the kimono a bit, a few options here on manufacturing. We can SLS (rapid manufacturing, selective laser sintering) the frames and finailze our Gen II trigger module and get product out relatively shortly. We SLS'd our first 110 SIRTs and it worked out well. details details… but no answer… I feel like the government. I am on this though!

Training Youth:

This topic dovetails with the M&P because I think the M&P is fantastic without any grips attached for small hands. youth training is a theme above which is huge. This makes our personal training sustainable, safer sons and daughters (proficiency is intertwined with safety), and builds our future. I did a short video with my 7 year old, Ryan, on training him up. I think a lot of dry handling with light loads is the key with lots of dummy rounds. He has not flinched yet so I think I am on a good path. I make custom light loads that don't fully cycle and double plug his ears. His stance and grip are getting really kick ass (proud biased dad) around the house. Whenever he sweeps me I gently scold him. But I think there is potential for a youth based program that focuses on the M&P and gets dad's training their sons. Of course in the process the dads (or moms) will get dialed in themselves with grip, stance, acceptable sight picture and TRIGGER CONTROL (ancient maxim: if you want to learn something teach it).

Timing on gun/ controlled pairs

This is in response to JasonG36. not to counter your points etc. but here is a recent revalation I have had on grip (which leads to controlled pairs). I spent 2 years fiddling with my finger tip pressure, chest pressure, stippling, loads, springs, slide weights….then one day I am throttling controlled pairs…next day way off. Incredibly frustrating. I turned the 1000 mile journey into a 10,000 mile journey. Then I have it figured out for one particular set up, so not fungible skills set. Taking a big step back I completely revamped my grip. Not only in "technique" but "how" I engage the gun. Philosophically (I am on Enos so I can go here ), I changed how I engage the gun to only use big dumb muscles. When I get my little fiddly muscles involved I find a lack of constancy. Practically this means the C-clamp grip (no finger tip pressure on strong or weak hand) and chest squeeze.

. The outcome is I feel way more competent to pick up any gun, get behind it and throttle controlled pairs, any load, any spring, etc. I used to fiddle faddle with minutia muscle contraction and I am done with that methodology. I think a shooter should strive for a huge window of performance independent of 1)mental stress 2) physical fatigue level and 3) environment (slippery grip). so if were more stressed and grip harder… no problem, no trigger freeze . if we are fatigued..no issue, big dumb muscles are behind the gun. If the grip is slippery as heck… how cares, we have chest squeeze behind gun and support hand can't possibly slip.

simplicity of recoil no more contraction no less

The thing with recoil management is we don't contract more muscles or de-contract muscles when the boom goes off. We stay constant, that is why I love dry fire so much because my grip is exactly the same throughout dry fire as live fire. As long as shooters grab the gun aggressively. One benefit I see with the lasers is that a good grip helps keep the laser as a dot not the ugly dash. So shooters tend to grip more aggressively, as they should. Now this can mask trigger mechanic deficiencies, so strong hand only reps must be done as well. Maybe everyone does this already and I am a slow learner. Lately I am shooting a G19 stock with winchester white box (from walmart). my objective is A zone hits controlled pairs (sub .24s splits) at 20 yrds all day any day, with 100% confidence they land in the A zone and sub .17s splits inside A 12 yrds with stock triggers etc.

heavy trigger/light trigger

I like the comments above on heavy bats and light bats. I may be luck here (grabbing SIRTs from the back ) but having an exceptionally heavy trigger has done more for my training than about anything. lets face it trigger control is elephant in the room when it comes to deficiencies. setting our guns to light triggers only masks the underlying deficiency of not being able to break the shot with any gun and not disturb the muzzle. But having a light trigger is nice to work the speed of reciprocating the trigger finger and keeping laser dots.. not dashes. Now 2 sirts is a stretch for most budgets (the Performer is like sub 189 street price) and changing the trigger weight is not feasible in a short training session (taking off slide etc.). but switching it up and hitting it light and then heavy has benefit. I don't see a specific benefit to leaving the trigger setting exactly as your live fire gun all the time. If anything I would set it heavy..

Burkett's dry fire.

I tend to go in an out from different regimens and tools. Daves_not_here…glad you put these drills back on the forefront. My extra lap top is set to these now all day. good stuff. its this little stuff that adds up to huge gains over time! cheers

…another short response…

Edited July 12, 2012 by Mike Hughes

[nick romero]

Mike thanks for the info on the mp sirt. I am very ecxcited for this product as i use a mp myself and am currently in the works to get one for my 13yd daughter. you have produced a great product and it has greatly helped improve my shooting as well as others. thank you again and keep up the good work

[A38337]

I LOVE my SIRT G17. Been using it about 2 yrs.

So much better than Airsoft or anything else out there.

SIRT makes dry fire rewarding, effective, and fun.

I also use it to train new shooters, to do force on force, to demonstrate techniques, etc.

It has helped me develop my skills and saved me a lot of ammo. This has more than paid for the SIRT.

I use my SIRT to do drills from various books (Anderson, Kirch, Seeklander), the drills on Burkett's website, and I integrate it into my live fire routine (shoot the drill live, then with the SIRT several times, and then live again).

My IDPA classifier went from 101-ish to 83-ish after a month training with the SIRT.

[Aglifter]

Does anyone think it would be possible to do a grip reduction on an SIRT Glock? I'd much rather have one in an M&P or 1911/2011 style, but it might work if I could get the grip angle the same.

[eric nielsen]

I was wondering the same thing myself. Undercut the triggerguard and flattened out the backstrap of my CCF/G35 to make it point exactly like my Open STI w/Wedge mainspring housing. Undercut the plastic G35 frame, removed fingergroves, removed back checkering - points nice too.

You'd have to take a lot more off the backstrap to make it point like an arched or flat MSH 1911/2011.

[daves_not_here]

I started a new drill with my SIRT.

I'm using a metronome to work on transitions. Working on speed and efficiency.

The take-up laser helps a lot with reducing the excess motion.

I find I over-run the next target if I don't have my eyes on the next target before the gun. Usually a bobble of the take-up laser.

Link to the thread:

metronome training thread

I'm hoping you'll find it a good way to use your SIRTs.

DNH