9mm major vs 9mm minor

[smokshwn]

So here is the reason that I ask. I am a revolver guy. I have a couple of nice ICORE guns and a 625. I do well with those. I have been at this game for about three years and am quickly becoming a gamer. I know that 38 super brass is high dollar and you leave a lot of it on the ground. 9m is everywhere. If I get a 9mm major for a open gun it seems it would be cheaper to reload and a little easier to find components. I was wondering if I could knock these out with my 650 with my standard 9mm stuff. I hear a lot of the hard core guys say stay away from the 9mm major. I know their are opinions, but I fail to see why I would HAVE to do a 38 super. To keep this round of fun going, what do you guys think about the good comparisons of these two loads for USPSA. With a 9mm it seems I could do it cheaper and get the same effects.

As Dave eluded to, this topic has been beat to death. Unless you have a solid source of 9mm brass the cost is about equal. Gun performance is debatable and largely could be argued subjective to each shooter. What 9 does get you is a lot of time to bullshit while other people search for their 38 super brass

[COMATZD]

What 9 does get you is a lot of time to bullshit while other people search for their 38 super brass

That's the truth. And sometimes you get real nice once-fired stuff from guys shooting production

[Foxbat]

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Edited April 21, 2010 by Foxbat

[Foxbat]

Lemme try to understand that cost issue... you are talking about the sport using a $4000-6000 pistol, often more than one. Probably at least $1000 a year in replacement parts, upgrades, etc. You probably go through about $5000 a year in reloaded ammo. Easily $1000 more in match fees, travel, meals, etc.

Say, you go through 20 matches a year... you lose 120 cases per match... I have bought 38 Super brass for 8-10 cents a piece, compared to maybe 2-3 cents a piece for 9mm brass... so that makes it about additional $200 a year in lost brass.

Sounds below trivial to me.

Not telling anyone what to do, just putting the numbers on the table, folks!

Edited April 21, 2010 by Foxbat

[COMATZD]

Lemme try to understand that cost issue... you are talking about the sport using a $4000-6000 pistol, often more one. Probably at least $1000 a year in replacement parts, upgrades, etc. You probably go through about $5000 a year in reloaded ammo. Easily $1000 more in match fees, travel, meals, etc.

Say, you go through 20 matches a year... you lose 120 cases per match... I have bought 38 Super brass for 8-10 cents a piece, compared to maybe 2-3 cents a piece for 9mm brass... so that makes it about additional $200 a year in lost brass.

Sounds below trivial to me.

Not telling anyone what to do, just putting the numbers on the table, folks!

Man, I'd love to have the money to shoot with you!

I'm in for a $2k gun, $700 in mags, shoot 2-3 matches a month for $600/yr, and use up maybe $1-1.5k in ammo. So far no replacement parts for a years worth of shooting on a used gun, I only changed the optic mount for $120. A couple hundred dollars for cases adds up quick, and also not having to buy a conversion setup to go from my stock 9mm loading to load for my open gun saved a few hundred off the top as well.

Completely not trivial when I decided to jump to open.

[smokshwn]

So hell, I'll play.

So far I have shot approx. 50k through my gun. That's 50,000 fewer times I have bent over to pick up brass than you.....that's well worth the $200.

Edited April 21, 2010 by smokshwn

[Foxbat]

A couple hundred dollars for cases adds up quick,

No argument here, but let's not forget another fact... as you keep practicing, the 9mm Major brass will have to be replaced after - as some people here say - just two or three times. The 38 Super brass seems to work forever. I have cases where you can hardly see any traces of nickel, so many times they have been used, and they still work with no issues. In last few months I trashed ONE split case.

[TMC]

There's lots of reasons people shoot one over the other. I've gone over the numbers and I understand where some folks are coming from however its a convenience thing for me. Only about 25% of my shooting is Open, the other is Production, 3-gun, Limited, Steel Challenge, plus few GSSF matches per year, Rimfire steel challenge and Rimfire specialty matches. My Open, Production, Steel Challenge, and 3-gun pistols are all 9mm so that means about 80% of my shooting is done with 9mm in varying power factors. Right now I have two buckets in my garage with about 7 gallons of 9mm brass, I don't know how many thousand this is but its enough for a while. So when I need ammo I just change powder measures and dial up or down the bullet seat die (caliper type) and I'm ready to go. When I have RO duty at our local club I pick up 9mm if its all grouped in one place, if not no big deal. Our range is littered with brass from lots of folks who don't pick up or from the LEO's who leave tons every week. Range brass is a bulk of low power factor stuff and I try to keep once fired separate for Major. My point is, I don't constantly worry about my supply of brass like I used to when I was shooting TJ, maybe its a mental thing I needed to work out but I used to dread practice and would limit my shooting because I was worried about how much brass I was loosing and when I'd have to buy more. Now I don't really think about it because its not an issue. I still sweap out my bullet, primer and powder supplies but that will be addressed in my next session on the couch

[smokshwn]

A couple hundred dollars for cases adds up quick,

No argument here, but let's not forget another fact... as you keep practicing, the 9mm Major brass will have to be replaced after - as some people here say - just two or three times. The 38 Super brass seems to work forever. I have cases where you can hardly see any traces of nickel, so many times they have been used, and they still work with no issues. In last few months I trashed ONE split case.

Again, this arguement has been hashed over and over again. There are at least 4-5 multipage threads that detail every angle of the discussion.

Depending on where you shoot your brass may never see it's 3rd 4th or 5th loading due to loss. Hell 3 solid months of the year there is a chance that our local matches may be canceled due to weather. For 5 mos a year to say that finding your brass in the mud, snow, and ice may be difficult is an understatement. As to 9 major brass not being reloadable, it depends very much on your load and your gun. I have a good supply of brass (not that hard to come by for anybody) so I don't worry about reloading mine multiple times. However, my spent brass shows no signs of over pressure, as a matter of fact I run small pistol primers just to give an earlier heads up to pressure and they flatten less in my nine than small rifle does in some guys' supers.

So round and round this arguement goes....shoot all the super you want. While I am sipping on a nice cool ice water I might be able to reach your kneepads from my chair

[Foxbat]

Again, this arguement has been hashed over and over again. There are at least 4-5 multipage threads that detail every angle of the discussion.

But thou shall not ignore no new one!

Edited April 21, 2010 by Foxbat

[diehli]

Blah.

Blah.

Blah.

There, I win.

[GrumpyOne]

Just suffice it to say us Super shooters and the 9 major shooters are never, NEVER, gonna see eye to eye on this topic. There are advantages to both....From what I've read here on the forums, Super is easier to get to run, whereas 9 major is easier to get brass. It all comes down to what you want to put up with. It's really not worth debating anymore.....

My personal preference.......

Super rules!

[Foxbat]

Just suffice it to say us Super shooters and the 9 major shooters are never, NEVER, gonna see eye to eye on this topic.

I don't know about that... I very well might try 9 major one day, simply because I love trying new things.

[smokshwn]

BLAH

BLAH

BLAH

BLAH

[GrumpyOne]

Just suffice it to say us Super shooters and the 9 major shooters are never, NEVER, gonna see eye to eye on this topic.

I don't know about that... I very well might try 9 major one day, simply because I love trying new things.

As well you might, but what was meant was the reloading aspect....

[ss+P]

ok i have read this whole post. I understand the brass issue and some of the other questions brought up here.

my question is:

If you have a 9mm major open gun, will it run factory 9 at all, the stuff you would shoot out of a production gun.

i have a lot of 9mm some of it being +p, but not all that i could use for practice assuming it may run the gun.

if i reload 9mm to major i have a bunch of once fired 9 brass that was shot on indoor ranges. and wouldn't care to reload it more than that one time

this is why i am thinking of 9open. i have the brass and would only need to get bullets and powder.

are you 9 open guys using pistol primers or rifle primers.

[diehli]

Q1: A well-put-together one will with a light enough spring.

Q2: Yes.

[ss+P]

thank you, unfortunalty i wasn't able to get the gun, but at least i have that knowledge now

[RiggerJJ]

ok i have read this whole post. I understand the brass issue and some of the other questions brought up here.

my question is:

If you have a 9mm major open gun, will it run factory 9 at all, the stuff you would shoot out of a production gun.

i have a lot of 9mm some of it being +p, but not all that i could use for practice assuming it may run the gun.

if i reload 9mm to major i have a bunch of once fired 9 brass that was shot on indoor ranges. and wouldn't care to reload it more than that one time

this is why i am thinking of 9open. i have the brass and would only need to get bullets and powder.

are you 9 open guys using pistol primers or rifle primers.

Pistol primers. If you HAVE to use rifle primers, then you are covering up something that may not be good...

send me all your 9mm brass that you won't fire a second time (for free of course! ), because there is a HUGE misconseption that 9 major damages brass. yes, it can, if its not loaded with the right combination of components at the right dimentions. but dialed in properly it can be just fine. you have less types powder to choose from compared to 38 super as well. choose wisely...

jj

[twodownzero]

That certainly isn't true if you're talking about a 1911/2011 pattern barrel. In every 1911/2011 barrel I've seen regardless of whether it's chambered for 9, Super, .40 or .45 there is a bit of the case that isn't supported where the feed ramp meets the chamber. The portion of the case that is exposed is forward of the extractor groove....i.e. the web of the case. It just so happens that when you put a Glock barrel next to a 1911 barrel they leave very similar amounts of the case unsupported. Yes, the Glock will be a few thousandths of an inch more, but it's a very slight difference. I've posted a picture comparing a Glock .40 barrel and a Schuemann .40 barrel multiple times here...I'll have to try to do the same for 9mm one of these days.

For once, I totally agree. 9mm major requires skill to reload safely, but I don't think there's any reason to believe that any gun is any more safe than another. What is important is to try to get the performance desired and minimize pressures. I think 9mm major is pushing it no matter what, but it's certainly not way off the charts, and probably not far from my own loads in .40 with S1000 and 180s or 200s.

I think safe reloading practices are far more important than the choice of caliber. Experience has shown that all of the calibers common to USPSA can be loaded safely. I think it's better to promote good reloading practices than to worry about what caliber a guy's shooting.

[the duck of death]

*QUOTE*

I shoot 9mm major because of the brass.

Not for me, I shoot 9 major 'caus Glock doesn't make a 38 super. 7.6gr of Silhouette + MG 121IFP out of my KKM barreled G34 is very easy on brass. OAL by the way is 1.143 any longer and the mags don't like them.

No case problems, no reloading problems, use WSP primers and they have round edges after the blast.

Using KKM barrel/4 port comp, Fast Fire II, Ice mag well and TF mag ext. Shoots reliable, soft and accurate--Oh snap--I got nothing to bitch about.

Edited May 7, 2010 by the duck of death

[Laxman2809]

On 5/7/2010 at 2:36 PM, the duck of death said:

*QUOTE*

I shoot 9mm major because of the brass.

Not for me, I shoot 9 major 'caus Glock doesn't make a 38 super. 7.6gr of Silhouette + MG 121IFP out of my KKM barreled G34 is very easy on brass. OAL by the way is 1.143 any longer and the mags don't like them.

No case problems, no reloading problems, use WSP primers and they have round edges after the blast.

Using KKM barrel/4 port comp, Fast Fire II, Ice mag well and TF mag ext. Shoots reliable, soft and accurate--Oh snap--I got nothing to bitch about.

I am going to have to try this. Thanks for sharing the info.

[zombywoof]

I will say this. 38 Super/Comp is one of my favorite cartridges to reload. Wide range of powders and bullets. It can be downloaded to .380 and uploaded to almost 357 magnum. Great cartridge.

 

The problem with shooting it is the brass is your only recoverable cost of the shooting. Your gear, travel expense etc.. is fixed no matter what you shoot.

 

I was spending more time looking for my brass than keeping my head in the match. It was very distracting. I couldn't leave it on the ground. I switched to CO and it was a weight lifted from my shoulders not looking for brass.

 

My STI is back for warranty work and I've asked for a 9 major. We'll see how it goes.