Gun locked up with live round in chamber . . . .

[Pro2AInPA]

I was at the range practicing over the weekend and another shooter had a malfunction where his gun locked up with a live round in the chamber. Let's say that happened during a match. Where would the shooter go to fix it?

Let's say it's locked up good and he needs to go somewhere other than the confines of the COF because he would be holding everyone up while trying to fix the gun.

He can't fix it in some random spot on club property because it's not a safety area, right?

BUT

He can't fix it in a safety area because of the loaded round (he would have ammunition in a safety area), right?

Soooooo what would the correct course of action be in this situation?

[Corey]

good question. this happened to a buddy of mine a month or two ago while doing some chrono work at the local range. he ended up bagging it carefully and took it home as he didnt have all his tools with him. Id like to know what others would do in a match situation as well...

[GentlemanJim]

I dont think there is a common answer to this question.

It would have to fall to the RO or RM.

Jim

[BayouSlide]

Nearly faced this at a match, but the slide was eventually opened.

FWIW, I would have had the competitor to place safety on, then holster and assign an RO to accompany the competitor to an empty bay or other appropriate portion of the firing range (NOT the safe area) and oversee efforts to resolve the issue.

Curtis

[BayouSlide]

Jim raises a good point. If other than a Level 1 match without an assigned RM, the RM should definitely be informed about what is going on.

Curtis

[nm3gnr]

Just my opinon, I would not let a firearm with a live round in the chamber leave a stage that I was RO ing.

Get it cleared, then caryy on.

D

[Nik Habicht]

Nearly faced this at a match, but the slide was eventually opened.

FWIW, I would have had the competitor to place safety on, then holster and assign an RO to accompany the competitor to an empty bay or other appropriate portion of the firing range (NOT the safe area) and oversee efforts to resolve the issue.

Curtis

The plan I prefer is to deal with it right there. Safety trumps holding up the match -- and usually there's enough experience on the squad, that we can open most anything....

Carefully moving the gun to an empty pit with an RO accompanying the shooter is probably the next best option -- but I'd probably need activity to have been stopped for ~ 15 minutes already before authorizing that....

Safety Areas, random areas of the range not under match/RO control are out....

[Nik Habicht]

Jim raises a good point. If other than a Level 1 match without an assigned RM, the RM should definitely be informed about what is going on.

Curtis

Even at a Level 1 -- there's a chain of command. If you don't have a designated RM, grab the match director.....

[BayouSlide]

Carefully moving the gun to an empty pit with an RO accompanying the shooter is probably the next best option -- but I'd probably need activity to have been stopped for ~ 15 minutes already before authorizing that....

Absolutely agree...and with notifying the match director at Level 1 match. Fortunately, I tend to be hastier in replying to posts when I multitask than I would be in dealing with a safety issue at the range .

Fortunately have never run into a problem yet that a few cool heads couldn't resolve on the line in five minutes.

Curtis

[Graham Smith]

We had this happen at a match. The RO was finally able to clear the gun, but they were nearly ready to call for the match director.

But it raises a good question, what happens if it cannot be cleared? Send the shooter home and have them take it to a gunsmith?

[wide45]

Don't forget 5.7.5

A RO or RM could remove the gun to another location to be worked on, but even under supervision, the competitor cannot.

[Bear23]

Is the gun in battery and can the round be discharged into the berm safely.

We've had this happen before at our range, i had the guy discharge the gun. In short, his rounds were jamming into the chamber and couldn't be easily extracted. He likes a really hot powder and all of his rounds had a nicely bulged base and were not easy to chamber.

I don't let loaded guns leave the bay, the potential for liability is too great.

[Pro2AInPA]

Is the gun in battery and can the round be discharged into the berm safely.

We've had this happen before at our range, i had the guy discharge the gun. In short, his rounds were jamming into the chamber and couldn't be easily extracted. He likes a really hot powder and all of his rounds had a nicely bulged base and were not easy to chamber.

I don't let loaded guns leave the bay, the potential for liability is too great.

In this particular case, the gun was NOT fully in battery.

[furyalecto]

We had an interesting lock up a few weeks ago at a club match.

I was RO'ing a fast shooter when his 1911 locked up. He spent a couple of minutes trying to clear. Finally called stop. A couple of the more experienced guys took the pistol to the berm & spent the next several minutes trying to clear the jam.

The gun had to be cut to get it open.

It turns out that he had fired into a misfire that no one had heard. The bullet split the barrel & wedged everything neatly into place.

There were about 25 people watching that didn't hear a thing. Unfortunately there have been plenty of misfires there. Everyone is pretty enthusiastic about yelling stop when it happens.

Indoor range with one bay.

How long do you keep at it if you don't know for sure?

[Gary Stevens]

Lets work through this a bit. Lets say it is a Level 1 match, perhaps the lugs shear off the barrel, and the gun will not open short of cutting the slide stop pin and punching it out. Most of us don't have the tools or perhaps the skill to do this at the range. Well OK some of us (me).

You can't clear the gun. What will you do? Chain the shooter to a tree with his broken gun and call it a day?

What will you do?

[steel1212]

Lets work through this a bit. Lets say it is a Level 1 match, perhaps the lugs shear off the barrel, and the gun will not open short of cutting the slide stop pin and punching it out. Most of us don't have the tools or perhaps the skill to do this at the range. Well OK some of us (me).

You can't clear the gun. What will you do? Chain the shooter to a tree with his broken gun and call it a day?

What will you do?

you could make the gun unable to fire, or some guns, say a 1911 remove the Firing Pin. Not the best option but at least it can't go bang from the firing pin.

Edited April 6, 2010 by steel1212

[Gary Stevens]

Possible solution, and a good one to boot. Then you send the shooter home as is?

[Corey]

what about a backup gun? everyone is saying send the shooter home. is it a DQ to have a malfunction? after we come to a safe agreement on a solution ( i dont think we do yet, haha) what about if the shooter has backup? can he just continue the match with it?

[Skydiver]

what about a backup gun? everyone is saying send the shooter home. is it a DQ to have a malfunction? after we come to a safe agreement on a solution ( i dont think we do yet, haha) what about if the shooter has backup? can he just continue the match with it?

See 5.1.7 and 5.1.8 about substitute guns. See 5.7.6 about any uncompleted strings if any for that stage.

[Corey]

what about a backup gun? everyone is saying send the shooter home. is it a DQ to have a malfunction? after we come to a safe agreement on a solution ( i dont think we do yet, haha) what about if the shooter has backup? can he just continue the match with it?

See 5.1.7 and 5.1.8 about substitute guns. See 5.7.6 about any uncompleted strings if any for that stage.

so if the shooter has 2 identical guns, consults the RM and gets it ok'd and chrono'd he/she is fine?

as for 5.7.6, take a 0 on the stage if you have to move on with the match. I agree a malf does not constitute a reshoot of any kind.

[DarthMuffin]

I'd inform the Match Director, then have the competitor make the gun as safe as possible (put on safe, remove firing pin or striker, whatever can be done). Have the competitor get his bag/case, bag it up for him and place it in his car for him, keeping the muzzle end of the bag pointed in a safe direction the entire time. I would say he is not in possession of the gun at that point and 5.7.5 is satisfied. Make sure he knows he's not allowed to touch it until he leaves the range or it's a DQ. At that point he could grab a backup gun and leave the broken one locked in the car.

[Gary Stevens]

The issue is not a back up gun. The issue is the gun that cannot be cleared. My line of questioning was obviously to provoke thought and discussion.

At larger matches Level 2 or 3 you can dump your problem on the RM and let them deal with it. But even at that level match sometimes you might not be able to clear the gun.

At some point, especially at a level 1 match, you just have to do something. The rulebngook cannot cover every possible situation and often requires folks to make common sense decisions.

I believe making the gun as safe as possible, putting in a safe place in the shooters vehicle, and leaving it for the shooter to deal with at a different location and time is about as good as you are going to get as a last resort.

[kgunz11]

Lets work through this a bit. Lets say it is a Level 1 match, perhaps the lugs shear off the barrel, and the gun will not open short of cutting the slide stop pin and punching it out. Most of us don't have the tools or perhaps the skill to do this at the range. Well OK some of us (me).

You can't clear the gun. What will you do? Chain the shooter to a tree with his broken gun and call it a day?

What will you do?

you could make the gun unable to fire, or some guns, say a 1911 remove the Firing Pin. Not the best option but at least it can go bang from the firing pin.

My thoughts exactly as I started reading the thread. I got a stuck case in an M&P Pro before (dang Israeli sub gun brass) and had to borrow a cleaning rod to beat the fired case out. My solution was to remove the slide from the frame thus making the gun theoretically safe. According to the rule book, a fired case is as bad as loaded ammo as it can be identified as a "dummy round" or something.