Lightest AR Possible

[kylethunder380]

Hey guys, if you were going to build an AR (setup like 3-gun rifle) and wanted the lightest rifle possible while also being 'gentle' in the recoil department, what components would you use and why? This is the planning stages of a rifle for a wheelchair-bound shooter who cannot take heavy recoil (spine injury) and can't support a heavy/long rifle very well (at least comfortably.) Keep in mind we are NOT talking about a benchrest/precision stick here, rather something accurate and light enough for managing '3-gun-like' courses (300yds max.) Please try to be fairly specific with your ideas...

Caliber (5.56, 6.5?)

Barrel Length (14.5, 16, 18, longer?)

Barrel Contour (m4/govt, med, etc.)

Gas vs. Piston System (carb, middy, rifle)

Handguard (carbon fiber?)

Compensator (rolling thunder?)

Stock

Upper Receiver (forged vs. billet, are some lighter than others?)

Lower Receiver (forged vs. billet, are some lighter than others?)

[dstroyed]

I built/modified (whatever) a very light AR. I started with 5.56 Bushmaster flat top with a 16” pencil barrel w/ collapsible stock that I put a Miculek comp, inexpensive Hogue grip and hand guard and a LaRue gas block to get rid of the front site and a Timney trigger I had laying around.

This is a very light weight setup the I would recommend to anyone wanting a light gun. If you selected the right optic like a dot of some sort to keep it light I think it would be tough to beat. I put a 2x7 with solid steel rings on it and it is still very light compared to most AR setups.

I think in stock form the gun is right at 6lb and I don’t believe my mods made any significant weight change up or down, until a mounted the optic. I don’t notice any more recoil that my other ARs but recoil was not a primary concern when i put this together.

The gun is very accurate. 300 Yards 3 gun is not a problem.

I didn’t answer all your questions. I hope this helps out some.

Good luck.

[EkuJustice]

One of the CalvArms lowers where the stock is built in, LW or pencil barrel, carbon fiber forend. 16 inch barrel(or shorter and perminately attach the break to take it out to 16 inches).

Edited March 26, 2010 by EkuJustice

[Nik Habicht]

Bushmaster still makes the Carbon 15 rifles --- they're pretty light, and some are now available with interchangeable stocks, though at the expense of a little additional weight.....

Another alternative, if you can live with an A2 lower, is to try and track down a Cavalry Arms lower.....

[kylethunder380]

Bushmaster still makes the Carbon 15 rifles --- they're pretty light, and some are now available with interchangeable stocks, though at the expense of a little additional weight.....

Another alternative, if you can live with an A2 lower, is to try and track down a Cavalry Arms lower.....

I was under the impression that the Carbon15 rifles were kind of crappy to say the least, is that not the truth?

-Kyle

[Airedale]

Bushmaster still makes the Carbon 15 rifles --- they're pretty light, and some are now available with interchangeable stocks, though at the expense of a little additional weight.....

Another alternative, if you can live with an A2 lower, is to try and track down a Cavalry Arms lower.....

I was under the impression that the Carbon15 rifles were kind of crappy to say the least, is that not the truth?

-Kyle

Mrs. Airedale shot one (when she still shot 3 gun).

It ran flawlessly until the year I didn't clean it. I shot the bolt with oil and it ran on just fine.

Dave

[VinceU1]

You might want to check the Nordic Components AR15 parts. They're listing a couple of 16" barrels that weigh 1.8lbs. One is a Lilja barrel($289) and the other is a Wilson($185) with free shipping and included mid-length gas tube. I've got a couple of Wilson barrels and they've all shown good accuracy.

[kylethunder380]

You might want to check the Nordic Components AR15 parts. They're listing a couple of 16" barrels that weigh 1.8lbs. One is a Lilja barrel($289) and the other is a Wilson($185) with free shipping and included mid-length gas tube. I've got a couple of Wilson barrels and they've all shown good accuracy.

Thanks, I really like the contour of those barrels, and I could have the section past the gas block fluted to skim even a little more weight off. But do you guys think a 18"/rifle-length gas would be easier to handle than a 16"/middy-length gas (as long as the 18" barrel is light) in this situation?

[Nik Habicht]

Bushmaster still makes the Carbon 15 rifles --- they're pretty light, and some are now available with interchangeable stocks, though at the expense of a little additional weight.....

Another alternative, if you can live with an A2 lower, is to try and track down a Cavalry Arms lower.....

I was under the impression that the Carbon15 rifles were kind of crappy to say the least, is that not the truth?

-Kyle

Beats me. I suspect, that like any other off the shelf rifle, they could be made to run....

How much effort that would involve, I have no idea. Since you mentioned being on the hunt for a light rifle, I figured I should at least mention them.....

[Nik Habicht]

You might want to check the Nordic Components AR15 parts. They're listing a couple of 16" barrels that weigh 1.8lbs. One is a Lilja barrel($289) and the other is a Wilson($185) with free shipping and included mid-length gas tube. I've got a couple of Wilson barrels and they've all shown good accuracy.

Thanks, I really like the contour of those barrels, and I could have the section past the gas block fluted to skim even a little more weight off. But do you guys think a 18"/rifle-length gas would be easier to handle than a 16"/middy-length gas (as long as the 18" barrel is light) in this situation?

My 18" upper from JP is soft shooting --- even with a steel bolt carrier and the gas turned up all the way. I think it's a good length.....

[BrianATL]

I have one of the bushmaster carbons R97 I think, less than 4 lbs runs great and plenty accurate for 3 gun

[kylethunder380]

Guys, I'm hearing like I should get a rifle-length gas system and an 18" barrel as the ultimate 'soft shooting' setup. It is only a little longer than the 16", so the tradeoff seems worth it from a little better maneuverability vs. softer/less (perceived) recoil.

What about the bolt carrier and buffer tube? I know JP makes a Low Mass bolt carrier and buffer tube, but does it really make the gun shoot softer than a regular carrier/buffer? Do you think this is something I should definitely have on my part list for my situation?

-Kyle

[Nik Habicht]

IIRC, the low-mass carrier/buffer also requires an adjustable gas block, and at least potentially gives up some reliability as compared to normal mass systems. That said it shoots softer --- and I'm pretty certain that if you keep the rifle clean and feed it ammo it likes, it can run reliably. Switching ammo could require retuning the gas system, depending on how much of a change it is.....

[usmc1974]

Bushmaster still makes the Carbon 15 rifles --- they're pretty light, and some are now available with interchangeable stocks, though at the expense of a little additional weight.....

+1 Carbon 15 rifles weigh like nothing. I don't think they come any lighter.

[smokshwn]

You can't get much lighter than to run a Cavalry Arms lower. Run a regular flattop upper, JP lightweight carrier and buffer, with a lightweight 16" barrel midlength gas system and a good comp (smallest would probably be one of the Nordic's). Firebird makes an absolutely teeny adjustable gas block. Add a carbon fiber free float tube and it would be as light as you could get any carbon fiber receiver gun without any of the hit and miss problems.

Good luck,

[Jesse Tischauser]

I'd call JP, firebird and triangle and tell them your situation. I bet you could get a little help figuring out what to do. Knowing the reputation those 3 builders have you will probably get a little more than advice to help a handicapped 3 gunner.

[calishootr]

I've got one ofthe 'old' JP's with the pencil thin barral and its extremely light even with a steel carrier an bolt, i tried the low mass but found out later i had to change out the hammer and buffer system as well to make it run 'right' otherwise you will have premature wear onthe parts

[Vlad]

For optics I'd look at the aimpoint T1/H1 series. I imagine proper head positioning would be a problem for the shooter (or at least consistent enough) so while everyone likes 1-4x scopes the red dot may be better. Also with a larue mount it weighs around 6oz. If money is an issue look at the primary arms clone.

[kylethunder380]

You are a clever guy, head positioning is definitely a problem. But why are you saying that a red dot would be better than a scope- better eye relief? I've never had a red dot so I really don't know.

Thanks for trying to help me out guys.

Good ideas so far- keep them coming.

-Kyle

[Jesse Tischauser]

Let us know what you end up building and how much it weighs too.

[Vlad]

You are a clever guy, head positioning is definitely a problem. But why are you saying that a red dot would be better than a scope- better eye relief? I've never had a red dot so I really don't know.

Red dot have unlimited eye relief, at least decent ones, as well as very little to no parallax.. A short one like the T1/H1 also has a large field of view and if you mount it forward (like at the end of the upper receiver) it should be really forgiving about head position. I'm guessing a red dot is pretty much the only choice with both scopes and iron requiring somewhat precise head positioning.

[chp5]

I have a Cav Arms lower with a CMMG 16" middy pencil barreled upper - very light. I don't think CMMG makes those uppers anymore though.

[philg80]

Here is the build I would do.....

16" pencil barrel

PRI adjustable gas block

Clark Carbon Fiber Forearm

A3 Upper

Standard AR lower build with an Ace stock or M4 stock

Model 1 Sales compensator 3 holes per side angled backward at a 45 degree plus popple holes in top(took away 60% of recoil)

[jobob]

Last fall I put together a lightweight. Cavarms lower with a Bushmaster 16" pencil (Superlite) upper. Unfortunately, the Cavarms lower requires a carbine length buffer and spring, so you can't use the JP lightweight buffer. I went the other route and use a Spikes Tactical ST-T2 heavy buffer with a Sprinco heavy spring. A Weaver 1-3x scope helps keep the weight light. It weighs right at 7 pounds.

Even without a comp it is still a soft shooting rifle. The Cav lower is a fixed A1 length which is 5/8" shorter than A2, so it would be easier to negotiate in a wheelchair, though probably not as good as collapsible carbine stock.

Everything is a trade off. You go too light you end up with more recoil. My wife's Carbon 15 is VERY light, but it has more recoil than any of my heavier ARs. It has been reliable, though it hasn't seen hard use.

The main problem with the Cavarms lower right now is that the company is out of business and the owner has plead guilty to a felony! Hopefully, someone will take the company over and start producing them again. That lower is a great basis for building a light rifle.

[Larry White]

I think someone has already started production of the cav arms lwr, even honoring the warranty from cav arms. I built one with a DPMS low pro upper, DPMS 16in light barrel and a alum float tube, about 6 1/2 lbs with a burris 1x4, its a little harsh but very shootable.---------Larry