Catch and Release

[kgunz11]

Note: I split a bunch of drift out of the thread on rifle caliber pistols for long range. Here it is. - Admin.

BTW, isn't this the "precision RIFLE" forum?

Edited March 17, 2010 by Flexmoney

[kgunz11]

What did Marion Morrison say... "if you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough".

What I was trying to share with you Flex is in some areas, the velocity produced by a short bbl rifle or pistol can get there, in some they can't. At the Colorado Rifle and Pistol club, it's easier possible to do. I admit, it would certainly be challenging. Caliber and bullet choice would play a huge roll.

And since you mention "building a position", consider it built. See photo below.

Edited March 13, 2010 by kgunz11

[Flexmoney]

I'll try and get some video of my idea of long range shooting in what I consider challenging conditions. I look fwd to days like today. It gives me a condition to shoot in that I often have to travel great distances to see.

Cool.

They shot the last match in 18in of snow...and whatever weather that goes with that.

[Flexmoney]

And since you mention "building a position", consider it built. See photo below.

You are gonna struggle to get that TC to give the lock up of a nice bolt gun.

[Vlad]

At first read I though that said "The Glock" on its side, which amused me greatly and then I was disappointed when I looked more carefully.

[Merlin Orr]

What did Marion Morrison say... "if you're gonna be stupid, you better be tough".

What I was trying to share with you Flex is in some areas, the velocity produced by a short bbl rifle or pistol can get there, in some they can't. At the Colorado Rifle and Pistol club, it's easier possible to do. I admit, it would certainly be challenging. Caliber and bullet choice would play a huge roll.

And since you mention "building a position", consider it built. See photo below.

I see no holes in the targets the gun is sitting on....?

[kgunz11]

Oh, it's not my gun, so I cannot comment on the accuracy potential.

[Flexmoney]

Oh, it's not my gun, so I cannot comment on the accuracy potential.

Sure you can. Those guns in the opening thread aren't your's either.

[kgunz11]

Oh, it's not my gun, so I cannot comment on the accuracy potential.

Sure you can. Those guns in the opening thread aren't your's either.

I did not comment on the accuracy potential of the guns in the original post, only their ability to perform at "long range". You see, there is a difference. They could be capable of shooting nice little groups out to 600 yards. The most accurate gun can have issues at 1000 yards if the bullet is unstable at that distance.

[Merlin Orr]

I did not know that a sub sonic bullet is inaccurate.... Damn.

I'm going to have to reevaluate my bench rest rimfire rifles with supersonic ammo....

[kgunz11]

I did not know that a sub sonic bullet is inaccurate.... Damn.

I'm going to have to reevaluate my bench rest rimfire rifles with supersonic ammo....

Is a subsonic bullet inaccurate? I always shot subsonic ammo in rimfire benchrest and every single world record in 22 rimfire bench rest is held with subsonic ammo.

Subsonic ammunition never breaks the sound barrier or it would not be "subsonic". The issue with supersonic ammunition occurs when it goes transonic. It is considered the end of it's accurate range as the flight of the bullet becomes erratic beyond that distance.

[Vlad]

At 900, the 155 has 9.2 MOA of wind at 2650 fps.

At 900, the 175 has 10.1 MOA of wind at 2450 fps.

That's a difference of roughly 9" of wind drift.

And the 155 would have less Coriolis Effect problems do to higher speed

[kgunz11]

At 900, the 155 has 9.2 MOA of wind at 2650 fps.

At 900, the 175 has 10.1 MOA of wind at 2450 fps.

That's a difference of roughly 9" of wind drift.

And the 155 would have less Coriolis Effect problems do to higher speed

There is no measurable Coriolis Effect within 1000 yards.

[Merlin Orr]

Now I am really confused... Sonic to subsonic..subsonic not going sonic and world records... I think I'll to (to) sonic and get a rootbeer float.

[Vlad]

There is no measurable Coriolis Effect within 1000 yards.

Back of my imaginary napkin math says its a bit less the 3" at 1000 plus or minus depending on your bullet speed. Maybe a bit less now that the Earth is rotating a bit slower after the Chile earthquake.

[kgunz11]

There is no measurable Coriolis Effect within 1000 yards.

Back of my imaginary napkin math says its a bit less the 3" at 1000 plus or minus depending on your bullet speed. Maybe a bit less now that the Earth is rotating a bit slower after the Chile earthquake.

It would be impossible to figure Coriolis Effect unless you knew where the shot was taken in relation to the equator and in which direction the bullet was fired. Time of flight is just under 2 seconds so the 3" figure is not accurate. But hey, it's just napkin math right?

[Flexmoney]

I wonder how that all changes with a full moon?

The Earth's crust bulges out something like 3m from the pull of the moons gravity (at sea level ). That is the kind of thing that pulls ice moons apart (see rings of Saturn).

Heck, a full moon might make the air less dense, even...

[kgunz11]

To add to that Flex, question how the path of the bullet is effected when shot over a body of water, then the change when same shot is taken over a body of water during a full moon cycle.

[Merlin Orr]

Man, this root beer float is some good. Will the cold affect my cheek weld to the extent that I need to compensate for it at 1000 +..?

[Flexmoney]

To add to that Flex, question how the path of the bullet is effected when shot over a body of water, then the change when same shot is taken over a body of water during a full moon cycle.

In the mountains of Colorado? (Since you brought that up...)

[herky]

Flex is having one of those days when there isn't much happening.

[kgunz11]

Now that you mention it, I've never considered the air density change over snow. Since we know moisture content in the air has an effect on exterior ballistics, snow melting off the ground could have a contribution. Though that would probably be negated because typically freezing temps and snow in Colorado would most likely make for some dry air. I know you guys are getting a good kick out of this, but it is interesting conversation from my standpoint.

[Vlad]

For that matter you need to worry about air density changes in the middle of summer if your round passes over a section of hot rocks, no?

[kgunz11]

Depends on how big the rocks are, time of flight over the rocks, trajectory over the rocks, and the amount of density change. For most practical purposes, it probably wouldn't lead to much of a difference.

[kgunz11]

We have been doing this for about a year now. Those guns Flex posted are a friend of mine ,one is in 260 Remington ,the other is in 7-08 , I have a Savage Striker in 260 rem that I put together myself and a XP-100 in 260 Rem custom the a gunsmith friend of mine put together for me.I have done the math and the leg work and they will do the job to 1200 and then some .If you do the work the 260 in 14'' / 15'' bbl's will get 2500/2600fps and shoot well .I use Lapua 139's,and have used Sierra 142's and they work well . My Striker will do .5'' at 300 yd's and so will the XP . I'm going to group these new guns at 600yd and 800yds this week . I have no problem's hitting 15'' circle's that we shoot in our match's from 200 to 900 yds . In the last match last year in Oct, I went 15 out of 18 the misses were one at 500 and two at 900 ,windage problem's . I'm having a ball learning new things at 60 yrs old ! Maybe Kyle will post my two rear grip gun's when he has a chance . COME ON IN AND GET YOUR FEET WET,its fun , it make's you giggle like a school girl when you hit something and 3 seconds or so later your hear the CLANG or clang as it my be !!!!

Dale

A .260 IS supersonic to 1245 yards, depending on temps and elevation, shooting a 139 Scenar at 2550 fps. And for the record, a 26" rifle barrel in a straight .260 can only drive the 139 to 2800-2850 fps.

You said

My Striker will do .5'' at 300 yd's and so will the XP.

Are you saying it will do half of an inch at 300 yards consistently or that you got a lucky .5" group at 300 yards once? There is a big difference. A .25 MOA group at 300 yards is .75" which is better than most custom rifles are capable of, and you are saying your pistol will do better than that? A lucky group I can see, you shoot enough and you'll get one of those, but to say it will do it consistently and that I'd drive to Ohio to see!