Trigger Job on an HK P2000?

[walsh]

I have an HK P2000 (and the SK) as well as a Sig229 with a 9mm Barstol conversion. Both are carry guns.

The length of pull in the LEM model is not slight. I have seen the do-it-yourself trigger job with two springs on an HK forum but that only lightens the pull from about 8.5 to 4.5. But the length on the first round is still there.

GrayGuns has a $350 package that tunes the trigger and shortens the reset by 65%. No mention of the first length of pull so I'll have to e-mail them. While very possibly worth it, not being able to shoot it sure is a lot of money to hope it accomplished all you were looking for. I'm more inclined to put that kind of money towards an M&P .45.

Is anyone shooting an HK P2000 in competition and have you modified it suck that it can still be a lawyer proof carry gun? If so, what is it that you had done and what was the cost?

Thanks in advance,

Walsh

.

[Tom S.]

I think the take up length on the first pull is just something you'll have to live with, as it is a direct reflection of the DA capability. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you are asking???

[DWFAN]

The first length of pull you are stuck with, but once its there, you never have to pull it again until you stop shooting. Train, train, train and you will get used to it, and it will come natural. If you want a short first pull, you'll have to get a different varient H&K and carry cocked and locked, or a single action only gun. AFAIK all of the DAO-DA/SA guns have a pretty long long first pull.

[walsh]

The one thing I have noticed is that my Kimber .45 CDP II is a tack driver, my Sig229 is not far behind it, and the HK P2000, as per the standard diagnostic wheel, has me "tightening fingers" with shots being 2-3" down at a 45 degree angle unless I really take a lot of time (5 seconds) to fire a shot, and still it doesn't approach the accuracy of the other two. But since my pistol instructor had no issue with it it's obviously how I am working the trigger. Shooting from a rest shows that it sure isn't the gun. And while I love my 229, I just picked up the HK as it sits atop my computer case under my desk and it is a great fit. I feel close to the same about the 229, which is why I bought each of them, but the weight of the HK is a big plus if carrying for a few hours.

I'm not about to pay $350 for a trigger job without being able to fire one that has had the work done on it. It could very well bee worth it, but I'm not about to find out. But I will talk to my local gunsmith (purely for legal reasons to do the work) about replacing those two springs as shown on the HK Forum to reduce the trigger to about 4.5 pounds. At the stock weight it would appear I am muscling the trigger.

Thanks,

Walsh

[walsh]

I think the take up length on the first pull is just something you'll have to live with, as it is a direct reflection of the DA capability. Unless I'm misunderstanding what you are asking???

The length of pull is longest for the first round, although I think it's less than 1 pound of pull. Once you reach the 2nd stage, not that it's a 2 stage trigger, the weight on an LEM is always the same to cock the trigger and fire a round. The only difference after the first shot is that you can reset for a shorter pull. But the LEM trigger is not at all as hard to pull as the first pull on a Sig229.

The reason I traded in my Glock 23 for the HK was that in the summer I carry IWB at 1-2 O'clock. That little trigger was not making me too comfortable while driving. Plus, when I initially started carrying I had already found how easy it was at the range after even thousands of rounds with the G23 to let a round go off by accident. It didn't happen often (maybe 1 or 2 in 100 rds) but I liked that with the HK there was a far less of a chance of accidentally letting a round go with your finger on the trigger. I was also shooting a S&W 686 at the time and I think that DA always trigger instinctively had me with too much pressure on the Glock after firing.

Thanks,

Walsh

[Gary1911A1]

This guy is frequently recommended by members of the HK Forum: http://www.triggerwork.net/usp.html

[-JQ-]

This guy is frequently recommended by members of the HK Forum: http://www.triggerwork.net/usp.html

I haven't had a P2000 done by them, but they are really nice folks. I had one of his triggers in a HK91 - blew people's minds as 91's aren't known for light crisp triggers.

Give them a ring and ask him what his work does for the gun.

GGI also does plenty good work too.

[caz41]

I had Bruce at GGI do a trigger job on a USP with the LEM. You are stuck with the length of the initial pull, however it is much smoother and the reset is way less than stock. It is hard to say if it is worth $350 or not. It is my duty gun so it was worth it to me. Depends on your needs and your wallet.

[konkapot]

I shot an LEM for some time in L10 on a fullsize USP. Really liked it a lot, and shot pretty ok.

In time the "break" point of that trigger changed; I would guess that it was at around 35k rds that the trigger had dramatically changed. Those little leaf sear springs did not seem to hold tension for very long.

I don't know that I would put $350+/- into a trigger that won't feel great for very long.

FY42385

[walsh]

To everyone,

I just got back from the range shooting 150 rds with my P2000 and 150 rds with my Sig229, and 50 rds with my Kimber.

I decided to print small targets with twenty 1" circles and put it at 10 feet and shoot first with a rest. Factor in that I have Varilux bifocal lenses and I'm not looking throufgh the reading part to hit the sights. But after lining up I am looking only aat the sights and the circle sitting on the front post.

While the P2000 was better that my shooting without the rest it just doesn't compare to the stock trigger on the Sig 229 and how it can shoot. Now perhaps I can get better at controlling it, but I decided my first step is going to see what the guy at TriggerWork can do to reduce the weight. I prefer the HK as a carry gun due to it s weight, but I can't see competing with it as it is setup now.

My Kimber .45 is a tack driver, but I'd need to go up to an STI for the mag well (or put an extension on the Kimber) as I'm not loading a single stack, nor am I beating that gun up. I actually want to compete eventually in Bullseye with it and get a Marvel .22 top.

Thanks for the tips and if TriggerWorks can make a difference I'll let you all know what changes were made and the effects. I can't justify $350 from GGI without shooting one first. I'd love the Sig trigger in the P2000, but that seems to not be an option.

Walsh

[caz41]

Good luck with it. I called and checked around and didn't come up with any more options than you did.

[walsh]

Good luck with it. I called and checked around and didn't come up with any more options than you did.

Did you ever do anything? Just as important, did you get better at controlling it so you used it in competition?

Thanks,

Walsh

[SCfromNY]

I had a trigger job done by Bill Springfield on my P2000 LEM and it was a significant improvement. $69 for a spring change and reset reduction which also includes him sending it back to you. Usually a 10 day max turn a round. The stroke back was smoother and the break lighter. For someone coming from DA/SA mostly, myself, it has taken a while to feel comfortable.

Another plus is that he only requires the frame so I was able to send it priority mail with good insurance.

I use the P2000 for IDPA occasionally slipping the P2000sk in for a stage or 2. The HK45 always travels to my USPSA match for when my Kimber decides it would rather not feed. (Limited 10)

[walsh]

I had a trigger job done by Bill Springfield on my P2000 LEM and it was a significant improvement. $69 for a spring change and reset reduction which also includes him sending it back to you. Usually a 10 day max turn a round. The stroke back was smoother and the break lighter. For someone coming from DA/SA mostly, myself, it has taken a while to feel comfortable.

Another plus is that he only requires the frame so I was able to send it priority mail with good insurance.

I use the P2000 for IDPA occasionally slipping the P2000sk in for a stage or 2. The HK45 always travels to my USPSA match for when my Kimber decides it would rather not feed. (Limited 10)

I finanlly spoke to Bill and will try to get both HKs out this week,

With your Kimber, did you put an STI like mag well on it?

Walsh

[Size 10]

I had a trigger job done by Bill Springfield on my P2000 LEM and it was a significant improvement. $69 for a spring change and reset reduction which also includes him sending it back to you. Usually a 10 day max turn a round. The stroke back was smoother and the break lighter. For someone coming from DA/SA mostly, myself, it has taken a while to feel comfortable.

Another plus is that he only requires the frame so I was able to send it priority mail with good insurance.

I use the P2000 for IDPA occasionally slipping the P2000sk in for a stage or 2. The HK45 always travels to my USPSA match for when my Kimber decides it would rather not feed. (Limited 10)

I finanlly spoke to Bill and will try to get both HKs out this week,

With your Kimber, did you put an STI like mag well on it?

You might want to rethink sending your pistols to Bill, There's a post both on HKpro forums and over at m4 carbine,reguarding Bill's work and it's not good. long story short, This person drove to Bills house and gave him 5-6 HK's to do trigger jobs on, He screwed ALL of them up...Remember, he is'nt factory trained, he's self taught,I don't know about you, but I'd rather have someone do a trigger job that actually knows what he's doing, and not using my pistol as a learning experience, You get what you pay for...Size 10

Edited December 24, 2010 by Size 10

[walsh]

You might want to rethink sending your pistols to Bill, There's a post both on HKpro forums and over at m4 carbine, regarding Bill's work and it's not good. long story short, This person drove to Bills house and gave him 5-6 HK's to do trigger jobs on, He screwed ALL of them up...Remember, he isn't factory trained, he's self taught,I don't know about you, but I'd rather have someone do a trigger job that actually knows what he's doing, and not using my pistol as a learning experience, You get what you pay for...

WOW! I just read the thread on m4carbine.

I don't like to criticize someone's work who I have not seen or used, but if you read that thread, and in particular if the HK is a self-defense gun, you should not be sending Bill Springfield a gun to work on after that report. This is too significant an issue to not respond to with an AVOID AT ALL COST

[Size 10]

You might want to rethink sending your pistols to Bill, There's a post both on HKpro forums and over at m4 carbine, regarding Bill's work and it's not good. long story short, This person drove to Bills house and gave him 5-6 HK's to do trigger jobs on, He screwed ALL of them up...Remember, he isn't factory trained, he's self taught,I don't know about you, but I'd rather have someone do a trigger job that actually knows what he's doing, and not using my pistol as a learning experience, You get what you pay for...

WOW! I just read the thread on m4carbine.

I don't like to criticize someone's work who I have not seen or used, but if you read that thread, and in particular if the HK is a self-defense gun, you should not be sending Bill Springfield a gun to work on after that report. This is too significant an issue to not respond to with an AVOID AT ALL COST

I don't care to critiicize anyone either, I had Bill do a trigger job on a PTR-91 I used to have, It was hugely improved after he worked on it, But I sold it shortly after getting it back, So, I have no idea how well it held up as the round count progressed. I have a P-2000 with a LEM trigger, I changed the TRS and firing pin block spring, and now it's a "light" LEM, It dosen't really need anything else (shorter reset woud be nice)But, I can live with it as is.. Remember, Bill is self taught,and has NO formal training, that should send a red flag up right there, reading his website he says he caters to "the weekend target shooter" If anyone needs work done on a HK, do yourself a favor and contact Greygguns..Bruce has a long list credentials, and is a trained HK 'smith He is'nt cheap, But he won't screw up your pistols,and they'll come back done right...Again, you get what you pay for..

[-JQ-]

You might want to rethink sending your pistols to Bill, There's a post both on HKpro forums and over at m4 carbine, regarding Bill's work and it's not good. long story short, This person drove to Bills house and gave him 5-6 HK's to do trigger j

you should not be sending Bill Springfield a gun to work on after that report. This is too significant an issue to not respond to with an AVOID AT ALL COST

Really? "at all costs " based on another internet thread...must be true. Pretty strong disparagment based on what....

this thread needs a lock...

[walsh]

You might want to rethink sending your pistols to Bill, There's a post both on HKpro forums and over at m4 carbine, regarding Bill's work and it's not good. long story short, This person drove to Bills house and gave him 5-6 HK's to do trigger j

you should not be sending Bill Springfield a gun to work on after that report. This is too significant an issue to not respond to with an AVOID AT ALL COST

Really? "at all costs " based on another internet thread...must be true. Pretty strong disparagment based on what....

this thread needs a lock...

Maybe if you went and read the thread on m4carbine and the number of people with bad experiences you wouldn't have responded as such.

The thread doesn't need a lock. It's rather informative. But of course, you'd have to do some research. Maybe then you'd know that he also didn't have an FFL for a while but was telling people it was okay to ship him their guns.

You can be a test case. Mail him a few HKs and let us know how it all works out.

Walsh

EDIT: maybe you want to go over to the m4carbibe forum, find the guy who detailed his problem with 5 HKs left in person, and call him a liar since you don't believe him. So, how well do you know Bill Springfield? I'm quite happy that the post leading me there was put here. The thread should remain open.

Edited December 24, 2010 by walsh

[Size 10]

You might want to rethink sending your pistols to Bill, There's a post both on HKpro forums and over at m4 carbine, regarding Bill's work and it's not good. long story short, This person drove to Bills house and gave him 5-6 HK's to do trigger j

you should not be sending Bill Springfield a gun to work on after that report. This is too significant an issue to not respond to with an AVOID AT ALL COST

Really? "at all costs " based on another internet thread...must be true. Pretty strong disparagment based on what....

this thread needs a lock...

Well, one thing about the M4carbine site, It's a "no b.S. site" So, when someone posts something like this they had better be able to back it up. I have read of problems with this guys work on AR triggers before, and if you care to read the post on M4c, one individual did call him and ask about his credentials, to which Bill told him that he was self taught,That statement right there would scare the hell out of me.. I don't think the thread needs locked, I DO think everyone should go over to M4c and read it for themselves and draw their own conclusions..

[-JQ-]

I didnt call anyone a liar. I did say lock since the topic had drifted to discussing/railing against an individual.

Dont like his/her work fine. No dog in that fight for me. I had nice experience ymmv.

Speaking of a nonbs board...one reason I hang here.

Im not a mod just a member who likes civil discussion.

Merry Christmas!

[walsh]

I didnt call anyone a liar. I did say lock since the topic had drifted to discussing/railing against an individual.

Dont like his/her work fine. No dog in that fight for me. I had nice experience ymmv.

Speaking of a nonbs board...one reason I hang here.

Im not a mod just a member who likes civil discussion.

Merry Christmas!

No, it is NOT railing against an individual. It is about his work. It is no different than stating the Widget Gun Repair Company is putting out shoddy repairs. He might have lost an eye and two finger in the service of his country for all I know. And he might have been a philanthropist who also coached 40 kids sports teams and be a great guy to have a beer with. No one has said a word here about him as an individual. You are decidedly wrong in your interpretation of what was posted. The discussion is about what is turned out from his shop as of late and there have been a number of complaints that are extraordinarily detailed, and numerous enough, that I do not think it is prudent, until he at least has HK credentials to prove he has been trained properly, to trust a firearm to him that might inadvertently take a life or cost you your own or your loved ones.

If this were a product safety commission looking at this there is ample evidence to recall every HK trigger job he has performed. Feel safe carrying a gun his shop worked on now? I had two guns I was going to ship to him. I am grateful this was brought to my attention.

Walsh

[-JQ-]

im glad th is thread was a help to you then, Walsh.

[walsh]

im glad th is thread was a help to you then, Walsh.

You're a funny guy.

I hope others can see through the BS and look purely at the issue at hand.

Walsh

CASE CLOSED

[Size 10]

I didnt call anyone a liar. I did say lock since the topic had drifted to discussing/railing against an individual.

Dont like his/her work fine. No dog in that fight for me. I had nice experience ymmv.

Speaking of a nonbs board...one reason I hang here.

Im not a mod just a member who likes civil discussion.

Merry Christmas!

JQ;

I really don't understand where the topic had drifted to railing against an individual..That may be your perception, but I don't see it.Everything I had mentioned is true, he has no formal training, and is self taught, which is great for some things,but no so much for others. No one is sacking Mr. Springfield on a personal basis, We are however, questioning the quality of the work he performs.There are numerous complaints about work he's done,considering some people have had him work on their pistols,and these same people may be carrying them for self defense, I see no harm in giving them heads up on a serious potential problem. This could save them a AD,or possibly their lives,if they actually have to use their pistol, and that $69 trigger job picked that point in time to take a sh@#. It's one thing if your game gun's trigger job poops out on you in a match,you'll lose points, time,but,if this is your CCW,there's alot more at stake. So far, I've yet to see B.S. post any kind of explaination..As I said, Go over to M4C and read for yourself. As far as locking the thread, that's up to the Mods...They'll do what they see fit. If this thread gives anyone pause to stop and reconsider sending this man a pistol/rifle to work on,until A. he either goes and gets some real training,and bring his skill/quality level up, or B. quit working on other peoples firearms altogether. Then it's done what it was intended to do,Which is to inform everyone about a potential problem,Save them some greif, and not bash the man on a personal basis.

EDITED TO ADD;

On the HKpro forums this morning(12/25/10) Mr. Springfield did finally respond..it seems he had a mild stroke, and that's why he was acting the way he was, in the orginial post/complaint from M4C,and HKpro, that started all this,I wish him a speedy recovery..

Edited December 25, 2010 by Size 10