Which is more powerful

[pries81]

Wow these are some good and deep thoughts...I think it is important that the need for performing at my own peak is what drives me(does that make sense?). I try not to think about positive or negative, win or lose. I go and I shoot. Sometimes at full power and at other times...not so good but it all depends on the mental prep.

If you keep thinking "wow that last stage was great! what did I do right?", you will try to focus on what you should be doing right instead of just letting your body do what it knows how to do. Don't focus on what you did right or wrong, just remember that overall feeling and flow of a "good stage" and duplicate it. The same works for the neg. side too.

In short, I say all that is just a distraction. When you really nail a stage, all you feel is a sense of awe and usually you don't remember exactly what happened. You just let your body go. That's the feeling I let drive me.

[little_kahuna]

In short, I say all that is just a distraction. When you really nail a stage, all you feel is a sense of awe and usually you don't remember exactly what happened. You just let your body go.

Nice 5th post!

I like the differentiation explained in Brian's response.

I just shoot and learn by maintaining awarenesss and not trying.

"Wins" are matches that I beat everyone at, "Losses" are matches that I'll beat everyone at next time.

Edited March 3, 2010 by little_kahuna

[benos]

Well if we let the losses go, how are we suppossed to learn from them? If we block them out of our mind, how can you take those mistakes and learn from them? I understand not dwelling on a bad stage and carry over to the next stage.

To me you are saying two different things. Letting go of a loss or bad performance has nothing to do with learning from it. The first (letting go) is an emotional response, while learning is purely technical.

be

[Sean Gaines]

Well if we let the losses go, how are we suppossed to learn from them? If we block them out of our mind, how can you take those mistakes and learn from them? I understand not dwelling on a bad stage and carry over to the next stage.

To me you are saying two different things. Letting go of a loss or bad performance has nothing to do with learning from it. The first (letting go) is an emotional response, while learning is purely technical.

be

I feel that (letting go) is a conscience effort to an emotional situation. Some people do not know how to let go, and carry thier baggage around, and have to be taught how to let go, so in essence the two have to be tied together, to keep your sanity or composure. Thats why sports Psychologist make so much money.....

Learning is not always technical, you can also learn from trial and error with no specific teaching or guidance. thats why people have different styles of shooting, you can learn bad habbits and good habbits. so learning is not purely technical or specific, what works for one, may not work for someone else.

[Duane Thomas]

Well if we let the losses go, how are we suppossed to learn from them?

I'm not saying don't learn from them. AAMOF I specifically did say to learn from them. I'm just saying that once you've taken what they have to give you - knowledge of where to practice - let it go. It never happened. I'll give you an example that illustrates what I'm trying to say. If I have a few of the specifics incorrect, they're only a few specifics, and the gist is here.

Back in the heyday of his career, Jack Nicklaus was doing an appearance/speech at a golf club. One of the things he said in the speech was, "I have never missed a putt within five yards in tournament play." After the speech, one of the club members came up to him and said, "You know, that's not true. I watched you on TV at the Master's just last week, and you missed a putt at four yards." Nicklaus fixed him with a steely gaze and said distinctly, "I have never missed a putt within five yards in tournament play."

Later on, the club member was bitching to his friend about how that Nicklaus guy was living in denial, living in a fantasy world, he wasn't hooked into reality, blah-blah-blah. His friend asked him, "What's your handicap?" The guy replied, "Thirteen." His friend said, "Okay, you have a thirteen handicap and he's the best who's ever lived....and you're saying he's doing it wrong?"

[Steve Moneypenny]

Losing ( especially to someone I don't like or feel i should have beaten) motivates me to practice more. and to stay a little bit more on top of my game the next time.

winning feels a lot better though. sadly there are many false victories in life, not every win is something I'm proud of, I've actually had close seconds I was more proud of my overall performance than large margin wins.

[BlackSabbath]

When I had back problems and ended up with surgery, shooting was taken away from me, for a time. It took a few years to get back where I was was. I learned an important lesson: I really missed (shooting matches) what I'd taken for granted for so long. I realized that I loved this game; all aspects of it....and, the winning takes care of itself.

[Sean Gaines]

Duane

I re read your post, you are right, sorry brother. What I would rather like to know is what drives Jack Nichlaus and everyone else. What motivated Jack to be as succesful as he was?

[edwin garcia]

Sean,

I personally, one is as important as the other. Sort of yin/yang that produces harmony, balance, peace and flower power.

Seriously, I think it's part of competing in any sport, even in business. Striving to win is a natural animal/human instinct

and is the basis of self-preservation. Losing[not wining] drives improvement in sports/business. One of our geneticists here

where i work puts it this way. We as a species, are on the top of the animal kingdom because we adapted to the challenges we faced

for thousands of years. Winning still motivates me most but the challenges of improving myself from not winning can be as important too.

Edwin

[Dan Burwell]

I almost typed something yesterday, but wanted to think about this a bit and I am glad I did. For me personally it is not about winning or losing, it is about the performance. If I shot to my ability then I am feeling good, I know the practice is paying, if I made a few mistakes, I am am feeling driven to improve my mistakes.

The winning or losing thing just doesn't matter because I have no control of my competition only over my personal performance. This is something that is hard to accept but something that for myself unlocks my best performances.

So if you ask the question a slightly different way you may get some different answers: What drives you more success or failure(not liking this word here)?

For me this is easier to answer it is the failures, they are easy to define and develop a plan to correct, the success are nice, but do nothing for progressing my abilities (other than reassuring I am headed the right way).

I think this is the same basic thing Brian was saying

[Jake Di Vita]

Which of the two is more powerful and stays with you longer a win or a loss? which one of the two stays in your memory and is more vivid than the other.Do you love winning more, or do you just hate to lose more. I guess what I am trying to say is which of the two drives you.

To me those are two different questions.

For the first one - definitely winning. Wins are all I remember for any length of time. The confidence to win again comes from winning the first time.

But for which drives me, definitely losing. Mistakes contributing to losses or bad performances massively motivated my training routine. be

This.

[9146gt]

I have been working on race cars for over 20 years.Many non first place finishes have been alot more rewarding than a WIN.

Tom

[Chris iliff]

Okay, I hate too lose so much that I don't even like to say the word. I much rather say "learn", and try to be positive. SOMETIMES I REALLY HATE LEARNING. I do remember the wins most of all, too few of them at this point.

[benos]

I almost typed something yesterday, but wanted to think about this a bit and I am glad I did. For me personally it is not about winning or losing, it is about the performance. If I shot to my ability then I am feeling good, I know the practice is paying, if I made a few mistakes, I am am feeling driven to improve my mistakes.

The winning or losing thing just doesn't matter because I have no control of my competition only over my personal performance. This is something that is hard to accept but something that for myself unlocks my best performances.

So if you ask the question a slightly different way you may get some different answers: What drives you more success or failure(not liking this word here)?

For me this is easier to answer it is the failures, they are easy to define and develop a plan to correct, the success are nice, but do nothing for progressing my abilities (other than reassuring I am headed the right way).

I think this is the same basic thing Brian was saying

Yes, exactly.

be

[GrumpyOne]

Which of the two is more powerful and stays with you longer a win or a loss? which one of the two stays in your memory and is more vivid than the other.

Do you love winning more, or do you just hate to lose more. I guess what I am trying to say is which of the two drives you.

To me those are two different questions.

For the first one - definitely winning. Wins are all I remember for any length of time. The confidence to win again comes from winning the first time.

But for which drives me, definitely losing. Mistakes contributing to losses or bad performances massively motivated my training routine.

be

+1 Wins are what I remember, losses are what drives me to become better. But then again, even winning, when I have shot badly (just not bad enough to lose), also drives me. Knowing that I could have done better, even though I won, is a big motivator for me.

[Sam]

Winning is definitely tha' powah' for me. But, it is actually the possibility of winning that provides a focus for my practice sessions.

If losing had power over us, each of us would have quit long ago, when we didn't win. And we would not be here working to improve.

Think of all the competitive shooters you have seen come and go!

If you win a match, win your class, or meet a personal goal, and you are winning! Wins are precious events!

Losses happen all the time, nothing to get excited about.

[benos]

Sam, you post triggered a memory of a conversation long ago with Mike Dalton. I was fairly new... and I'd just won something of some consequence - I can't remember. And he said, you have to learn how to lose, because you're going to lose a lot more often than you are going to win.

I can still remember how that made me feel - I didn't like it.

But later I understood his point.

be

[Jake Di Vita]

You know what Vince Lombardi said:

"Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser."

[Sam]

This reminds me of Pavlov's puppy. I hear that beep and I start to salivate.

[mike4045]

I love winning. But it's knowing what was lacking and fixing it that helps push me. Luckily I have a really bad short term memory thing going. It has led me to do the one thing I to practice, shooting groups.

[BSeevers]

I hate not winning

[wide45]

I love not winning. It makes Victory taste so good.

If winning was automatic, there would be no value to it.

Edited March 18, 2010 by wide45

[salilus]

I have just recently, last sat., run into this exact situation. I finished 3rd in my division, ESP\EX, at the Louisiana State IDPA match. I knew that for 6 of the 9 stages, I did everything to the top of my ability. They were not perfect, but they were competitive. On one of the stages, there were alot of movers. When I saw alot, I mean 1 drop turner, 1 swinger, 1 pop up target that gave you maybe 1.5 seconds of head to see, and three pieces of steel to activate all of this. Oh yeah, and you were kneeling in a boat on springs with a swinger in your boat to make if move. On the far left hand side, there was one static target, maybe 10 yards out. I was so worried about all of the movers, thats where all of my focus went. When I came to the static target to finish, I shot 1 -3. I remember calling this shot. I did a slide lock reload fired one more on that static target and moved immediately to the swinger because I though I called a miss. Turns out that I put 3 in the -0 of the swinger. But that static target had a -3 and a MIKE. The stage was fast, I zeroed all of the movers, but that static gave me 8 and a Failure. That 5 second FTN cost me 1st place. One shot between first and third. I have been replaying that one shot in my head for 5 days now. In this instance, loosing is a powerful motivator for me. All I keep hearing in my head is "You better not let that sh*t happen again...."

[benos]

Of course it's more fun to win, after you've won.

I was never driven by the will to win. I got the best feeling by competing at, or even occasionally exceding, my maximum capacity. That's what drove me. Then if I won that was a bonus round.

be

[Duane Thomas]

The thing is, if you shoot to the maximum of your ability, you generally do win.