Which is more powerful

[Sean Gaines]

Just curious as to what you competitive shooters think.

Which of the two is more powerful and stays with you longer a win or a loss? which one of the two stays in your memory and is more vivid than the other.

Do you love winning more, or do you just hate to lose more. I guess what I am trying to say is which of the two drives you. The thrill of the win or that you would rather die than to lose. be honest

[lugnut]

A win stays longer. I don't let loses get to me so I don't dwell on them.

I'm not sure what drives me more. I'm sure I don't want to lose and I want to win but I just want to prove to myself that my hard work pays off. I'd have to think more about this. I'd have to say that I'm more driven to win. I don't worry too much about losing.

Edited March 2, 2010 by lugnut

[Bigpops]

short answer...YES! (both)

[bikerburgess]

I don't win enough so they stay with me longer

If I let the losses get to me I would go nuts.

[pjb45]

Very few top competitors in any sport survive on negative images. While losing may motivate some to try harder, they try and focus on the areas for improvement in a positive way.

Lanny B. talks briefly about a situation where the coach tells the batter not to strike out and striking out is now in the batter's mind. (I apologize to LB is I am mistaken in the lesson). So while the mechanics of what cause the strike out are important to recognize, the key is to work on the techniques required not to perform badly, to remedy the cause of the poor performance.

The synergy of the ego, conscious and subconscious mind is what produces exceptional results, I find it hard to understand how a negative image would lead to a positive ego.

To cite LB again, he mentions a situation in which he is asked about 5(?) misses and his response is "Don't you want to know about the 95 perfect hits!"

In a long conversation with Taran Butler about shooting weak hand, he said, everyone does not like to work on shooting weak hand, I wanted to be know as the guy who shoots weak hand just as fast and accurate as freestyle. So he worked on it. He took an area for improvement and made it an asset.

Since we are are different, and different things motivate us, sure it is possible to be motivated by not losing but that seems to be counter-productive to being motivated to seek perfection.

[Chills1994]

Hmmmn...I will have to think about this some more. Maybe I will be back later once I mull things over.

I guess I came to an epiphany a while back that being a better shooter does not a better person make. I think some people get off thinking that though.

Ego truly is an interesting thing.

What motivates me and puts a smile on my face is going through a stage that shows that I have improved...kinda like a new benchmark...enjoying the fruits of my labor of the time I have sunk into this sport.

[Aristotle]

I'm extremely competitive, always have been, in everything I do. I am never afraid nor do I hate losing though, I need it, it's what drives me.

When I spent more time golfing, as in shooting, when you get to single digit golf and you start "playing for dough", it's all about the mental game. You cannot allow a bad hole to linger, you leave it on the last hole. I only have room in my head for the positives when I'm in the hunt, everything else I'll let someone else worry about.

Edited March 2, 2010 by Aristotle

[CHA-LEE]

I think its more important to have the mentality of knowing that you will give something your best and NOT be afraid to lose. It takes a lot of mental fortitude to jump in with both feet knowing full well that you may get ground up and spit out if it does not go the way you planed.

[xcelr8n]

I once took a test that looked at how I viewed competition. Here is my order of preference for win/lose scenarios.

1. win/win

2. win/lose

3. lose/lose

4. lose/win

I guess that I hate to be beaten.

[Pezco]

Winning! It goes without saying that we hate losing if we drive to win. Thinking about losing even if it is in the form of "hate losing" puts you in a negative mindset. This is from a life time of competition well beyond shooting.

My .02 cents!

[AWLAZS]

Sean, I like winning better then losing for sure.

I like to win when I do my best. If I go to a match and don't shoot the way I wanted to but still win it a win. If I go to a match and shoot awesome but lose to a better shooter I actually feel better about it because I know I shot the best match that I could have.

[CocoBolo]

Sounds like a set up for Performance Anxiety. I do think that thinking in either direction is counter productive. Winning go too fast crash and burn, losing be too tenative crash and burn. Like Enos says in his book, one target at a time see what you need to see.

[Merlin Orr]

I enjoy the rare times I win. I do not like to lose. I REALLY hate it when I beat myself.

It the most satisfying to me to know I have shot a good match and staying within my capabilities - both mentally and physically. Good plan and no bonehead uckflups.

[Chris Christian]

In my case, I think wins last longer... largely because I have the trophys to remind me. Losses are just another match I didn't win.

Chris Christian

[Chris iliff]

When I execute my plan for each and every stage of the match, I win. When I don't, I learn. What's with lose?

[j1b]

Ugh, tough question.

I do loath losing. It just irritates the hell out of me. To put some parameters around this, what I really can't stand is doing something that causes me to lose. Stage 1, stage 20, or any of the stages in between. If I've done something that I can undeniably attribute to losing, it rubs me the wrong way. I'd agree that I learn from it, but it still just grates me.

I have lost matches that I shot solid and it just didn't work out. Sometimes frustrating, sometimes just have to acknowledge it for what it is. Sometimes those match losses are by less than a point at which point in time you can start grilling yourself over a D on a stage or a flubbed load. Irritating for sure, but certainly something that is livable. And those losses really push me to pick apart my game. It's no longer about major issues - it's about out thinking, out shooting, out finessing the other shooters.

I've also won matches I shouldn't have. Those are particularly empty - knowing that there was a lot of meat left on the table. It isn't a great feeling and it isn't something that I relish. Because I can only believe that next time I won't be as lucky.

Switching gears, I LOVE shooting a solid match and pulling out a close win. It just makes me giddy. Going head to head, battling a solid battle, leaving it all out there and pulling it through.

A long post to say I am like the others. I hate losing. I love winning. And at least for me personally there is some gray in between - depending on performance.

Jack

[benos]

Which of the two is more powerful and stays with you longer a win or a loss? which one of the two stays in your memory and is more vivid than the other.

Do you love winning more, or do you just hate to lose more. I guess what I am trying to say is which of the two drives you.

To me those are two different questions.

For the first one - definitely winning. Wins are all I remember for any length of time. The confidence to win again comes from winning the first time.

But for which drives me, definitely losing. Mistakes contributing to losses or bad performances massively motivated my training routine.

be

[Duane Thomas]

Winning, definitely. This is one of the basic differences, I think, between a winner and loser mindset. Winners let the losses go. Not to say, if a real weakness surfaces in a match, that we don't take note of that fact and put practice time toward turning that weakness into a strength. But other than that, we let it go. OTOH a truly great win is something that I love thinking about.

[briansea2]

Losing is not an option for me, however since I have never won, I guess that winning isn't either

B

[calishootr]

interesting topic, for me its neither, yeah i usedto be consumed to win at any cost, what did it cost me?? plenty...overthe yrs Ive had my share of wins, but far more losses than wins, what i did learn however, is thatgiven my skillset, if i shoot within myself, not worry abouttoo much external crap ,and letthe card fall where they may, I will be in the top percentile.

on losing, who do we 'lose' to??? I used to travel to another state where i shot with some folks, one in particular, usedto get in my face(he really needed a mint) saying he was really gonna kick my butt that day...it used to getto me for a bit, then i realized that on my worst day, he couldnt touch me, let alone beat me, as long as i shot up to my standards...

nowadays i shoot to my 'standards' did i have a clean match??? did i hit any no-shoots??? why??? missteps??? why??? losing now is onlyto myself....

[9mmalpha]

Just curious as to what you competitive shooters think.

Which of the two is more powerful and stays with you longer a win or a loss? which one of the two stays in your memory and is more vivid than the other.

Do you love winning more, or do you just hate to lose more. I guess what I am trying to say is which of the two drives you. The thrill of the win or that you would rather die than to lose. be honest

Im a newbie, maybe not a very competitive in nature , but from my recent experience on loosing in IDPA nationals placing 7th out of 18 shooter in my class that means no plaque because only 6th gets it I guess you can figure out how I felt... but because I knew I trained hard from being a newbie to earning an SS class just before the nationals i actually felt satisfied and I think I knew next time I can do better. all I need to do is work harder and work on my mental presence in the game. but that is a good start for me I have to learn from all that mistake

Edited March 3, 2010 by 9mmalpha

[Loves2Shoot]

The motto we had growing up competing in endurance races (long distance horse racing) was "To compete is to win."

For me, if I'm competitive I'm very happy with my day shooting, if I do stupid stuff, I am not and I go back to the drawing board.

Winning when other people fall on their faces is an empty thing for me and losing and performing well has more meaning for me. The more I shoot, the less the score sheets have meaning versus how I feel I shot that day.

[Duane Thomas]

I like winning. I LOVE winning.

[Sean Gaines]

Winning, definitely. This is one of the basic differences, I think, between a winner and loser mindset. Winners let the losses go. Not to say, if a real weakness surfaces in a match, that we don't take note of that fact and put practice time toward turning that weakness into a strength. But other than that, we let it go. OTOH a truly great win is something that I love thinking about.

Well if we let the losses go, how are we suppossed to learn from them? If we block them out of our mind, how can you take those mistakes and learn from them? I understand not dwelling on a bad stage and carry over to the next stage. Thier is alot of fruit in a loss, the mistakes you make can be carried into your training.

With all the statements above what is the more powerful emotion, LOVE to win, or HATE to lose. The easy answer would be to say we all love winning.

Both Hate and Love will make you do stupid stuff, anyone who has been in a relationship knows that.

If someone were to ask me what drives me to be the best that I can be at shooting. I would reply "I HATE to lose"

I have seen people who shot a stage wrong or made a mistake and throw mags, kick the dirt, punch barricades and do all kinds of crazy stuff. I have never seen anyone shoot a stage perfectly, jump up and down, and tell everyone and thier dog, that I just got a stage win. First of all its not appropriate, and you would look like a jerk (I am sure you have seen one person do this. lol, but its rare). but yet the person who made a mistake will do all kinds of crazy stuff that wouldn't be appropriate, but yet you see it fairly often. The person HATES the fact that he made a mistake, or didn't shoot the stage the way he wanted to, and led him to do his crazy antics.

So to answer my question. as bad as it may sound, I must say HATE is the more powerful emotion, and is what drives me to be a better shooter. I think winning comes from losing and learning. And like Brian said, once you start winning, then it creates confidence, then you expect nothing but a win. So in reality, you must fall down a few times before you can start running. So the thought of falling must be remembered at first in order to start running. Once you start running and running faster, until then will the thought of falling leave your mind.

Confucius out!

[Aristotle]

The answer to "Which is more powerful", "to me" is not an absolute question, rather a "perspective" question, like the proverbial "is the glass half empty or half full" question. Your perspectives are based on your "belief's" and Beliefs are based upon past experiences, or what you know is true. So everyone will have their own perspective.

Is it possible to Not win, but not lose also? I won my division, but loss match overall? Now we have to define what "winning" is "to you".

Both Love and Hate, as you said, can have a blinding affect. But I think the they don't mix particularly well, so I only have room in my self for the good stuff. Just like my family and friends I Love, I will do anything for, including dieing for them, and that is a powerful thing. I would not chose to die for the things I hate, hate doesn't drive me in that sense.

I've decided that anything I truly love, I'd be willing to sacrifice myself for because to truly Love something, means you would give anything for it. I would be willing to die for those things I love, for that is all I have in my life. And I love living, so that is what drives me.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Aristotle