Ion Bond review.

[raz-0]

Ok, so you see pictures, and it looks nice. If you are like me and don't like chrome, it looks even better. And you hear people saying you can take your knife to it, and it even gives laser engravers a fit. Also that if you do compromise it somehow, it won't flake like other coatings. Also that it isn't corrosion resistant, but it sucks up oil like a camel does water. Also that it isn't self lubricating, but it IS slick.

Got it done, can't say I'd call Ionbond tough. I got all the small parts done. Disconnector was showing white metal through spots after less than 20 cycles by hand. Used it with a CR speed holster. Setting up my rig, I probably holstered it about 10 times. Took it to an indoor practice match, so holstered it a few more times at the safe table, and after each of the four stages. so less than 20 times. Didn't notice I had lost the little white plastic doohickey that covers the screw that attaches the hood at the end of the holster. Screw managed to gouge through the ionbond a little (screw does not appear to even be hardened). I'm at about the 500 round mark, and the ionbond is wearing off the hammer, but oddly enough, not the FPS that is causing said finish wear. Also, at the sharp point created at the front on a classic/ball cut slide from the cut, it came off without any notable abuse.

As far as the hammer wear, I don't find it too odd, two different alloys, and the ionbond has to stick better to one than the other. As for the other stuff, I'm not so sure ionbond does too well with sharp angles or compound angles. Also recently saw an ionbonded gun for sale on the forum that had bits missing on the peaks of the slide serrations, which would fit with that theory.

However, I will say that it does not appear to be flaking or spreading, just not as tough as claimed or as you might want for the premium price.

Heck springer did a 1911 for me in cerakote at the same time that had a cringe inducing "whoops" when getting put back in the safe that I fully expected to do damage (made unpleasant contact with the safe, another pistol, one locking lug, and the floor when it slipped off the shelf). It has less wear so far than the ionbond (i.e. finish is fully intact with expected slide rail wear commencing, but not through the finish yet).

As far as sucking up oil, it appears to do so very well. I doused the thing in fp-10, and it appeared dry way before my melonited M&P slide. More importantly, weeks later when it was against something more absorbent, some of that oil still came out. Tried that with the M&P I had treated at the same time and stuck in the safe while the new kid gets all the attention, and it was dry as a bone.

As for the slick but non self lubricating talk that is a might confusing. It's less confusing in person if you felt the gun run in the white and after ionbonding, but without any noticeable lube. It smoothes things up without lube, and even more so with lube. Kind of like polishing will, but without the polishing.

Also, I got the small parts ionbonded. It noticeably affected trigger pull. Subjectively, the awesome trigger job from gansguns felt slightly less awesome, so i broke out my trigger scale. In the white, it had consistently pulled 2.5lbs, post ionbond, 2.75. As a check, I broke out some of the poor guys in the safe who i had checked their pull weight, but hadn't gotten any play time since the last time I checked them. they all pulled what I expected. If I had to wuantify the minor wrongness that struck me, it felt a bit more chunky. Since then (about 500 rounds later), it feels nice and smooth again, but still pulls about 2.75. Haven't had it apart to see how the ionbond is wearing in there yet.

Then there is thickness. They say it shouldn't interfere with already fit parts and doesn't require a break in. I shot my gun in the white for about 600 rounds. Gansguns sent it back with the tightest fitting bushing I have ever met on a 1911, but it still ran like a top and although I might need a bushing wrench to turn it, I could pop it out with just fingers. Post ionbond, I REALLY need a bushing wrench to turn it, and it won't come out without using the barrel to push it out. Still runs like a top though, and it doesn't seem to be causing undue wear to the finish of the stainless barrel.

So, roughly speaking Getting the gun Ion Bonded cost about $425-450 depending on how you calculate shipping and where you live (i'm nearly worst case on distance, and I was shipping two custom guns with lots of insurance).

Pretty as all get out, but I suspect you could create something as pretty using good prep, some black park, and probably some flavor of cerakote on top. From my experience, it'd be tougher than my ionbon compared to my cerakote, and get you some corrosion protection to boot. Odds are you wouldn't have to ship it all that far to find someone who could do that either.

I knew I was taking my chances on a complex sounding coating that nobody I know has used, much less for any length of time. Not trying to grind an axe here, but mostly you find silence, or people saying it is super amazing stuff that shoots sunshine out it's butt. About the only negative i had heard was form one engineer friend who had some concern tha a PVD coating would probably flake when damaged.

In the pic below you can see a silver spot below the reverse plug. That's not the residue of someone's $200 RC 60 hardness knife, that's damage from a $0.20 screw. You can also see the shininess of the missing finsih at the ball cut. And because I didn't mention it before, it has probably another 100 draws on it in the CR speed holster, and a couple more matches under it's belt and it doesn't seem to be flaking or spreading. Also out of the box form springer, the thing was perfect as far as I can tell. so it's not like they sent out something that had something obviously wrong with it. But in the quest for something as good as hard chrome without all the associated silveriness that a lot of us don't like, I don't think Ionbond isn't quite the holy grail it is portrayed as by some.

the FS pic I referenced (I'm hosting a dupe, just so it doesn't vaporize long term). Note by the notch for the thumb safety and on the serrations as well as by the slide stop notch.

[Putty]

Good report.

My single stack is done. looks purdy. Runs great. The magwell that was ionbonded has chipped and scratched with very limited reloading (2 matches). I may go back to hard chrome next time or hot blue. Not sure if Ionbond claims their finish doesnt chip or scratch. Perhaps the fable was generated elsewhere.

[Rolex]

So I would guess you are less than happy with this type of finish

it looks good in he photos. Maybe finish Just did not take well.

Call the company that did it and ask about any type of warranty

[Steve J]

Thank you. That answers the question I've been asking. It's the typical advertising hype. Now we need someone to come clean about Hard Blue. The claims are pretty dramatic here http://www.superiorbarrels.com/.

Canyon Creek is the only place I've found that's using it on slides and frames.

[Putty]

Seems like hardblue is just for barrels

[RIIID]

I did a search before I started calling the finish I use "Hard Blue"(TiAlN) on the guns I build. I didn't find the Superior Barrels web-site till now, it doesn't say what the coating is so I assuming it isn't TiAlN. I would say the two finishes are different and are being called the same name. Since their web-site has a date of 2007 listed, I will have to find a different name so there won't be any confusion.

Rich

[Warrior Judge]

This is disturbing news. I have a Saiga 12 being Ion Bonded in the new copper color. I was hoping for something at least as durable as Cerakote. UGHHHH!

WJ

[CHA-LEE]

Thanks for the nice review on the Ionbond coating!!!

[Qbert]

Thanks for the honest review. I remember several years ago, when these new, ultra uber coatings started gaining notoriety, starting with Bodycote and their boron carbide finishes...and one by one they never seemed to live up to the hype. Hard chrome isn't the be-all, end-all, but it has certainly stood up to the test of time.

Glock's Tennifer sure seems to hold up as well.

Edited February 25, 2010 by Qbert

[mike cyrwus]

I saw a highly polished slide flat thats was ionbonded with a horrible scratch mark that was made by holstering with a coarse piece of quartz sand stuck in the holster.

Its not the end all be all, but I still like ionbond for a tough, black finish. Cerakote is great, but it isnt near as hard as ionbond.

[Loves2Shoot]

We do the custom coating for IonBond North America and you would not believe some of the things we get calls about rumors that are spread on the internet. Either overly praising or hypercritical.

The DLC (DiamondBLACK) finish is a hard carbon coating that CAN NOT make softer metals super hard and indestructible, most will note that the softer metal parts will wear faster than hard parts. Mix hard parts with soft parts, and one will wear (ie fp stop versus hammer face.) The coating is also oriented a bit. There will be more coating on the outside of a slide than on the inside.

If you gouge steel (ie a magwell) you will remove the steel and the coating with it. The same will happen with hard rocks or sand embedded in a Kydex holster. Some people want to DLC coat aluminum, but it is so soft we suggest using Class III hard anodizing. SS is generally softer also, so mag wells WILL gouge if you miss, spring steel against soft steel or aluminum, spring steel wins.

How many of you have slides that peen over or have small burrs in the area of the slide stop? If you move the base metal the coating will move also.

Hard chrome is super thick it comparison, so though you may still scratch it is is thick so you may not get all the way through it. DLC is about 4-5 microns and so there will be a short time where it is tighter, and if you coat the sear and hammer, you will need to do work to them after coating. You are adding material to a generally mirror type finish if you have a good trigger.

All in all we do a lot of coating and if you understand how the coating works your expectations will most likely be met or exceeded. If you think it is "magic" you will not have your expectations met. Coatings are not magic, they are subject to the laws of physics. The machines at IonBond are very busy and most of the time is spent coating for major manufacturers and under many trade names and in many formulations.

I have several demo slide that have been through Shot and have been severely abused by anyone who wanted to, I can post if you wish. I also have a slide that we let customers sand with 600 grit sand paper. Can aluminum oxide scratch though thte caoting? Yes, if you have a big enough sharp piece. There is NO WAY CeraKote comes close to out performing DiamondBLACK, or the other PVD coatings with lesser hardness, and we do a fair amount of CeraKote finishing. I'm not knocking the product, but it does not even come close to the durability of the PVD for wear, but I do know the limitations of it's performance and use it when it meet the performance and price requirement of a customer.

Knowing proper application and limitations are very important if you want to meet your expectations. 541-480-5546 we can help you understand the applications as we daily get people who want to coat things in a way that is not appropriate to their expectations and we'll do the best to we to give you straight dope. We'll do what you request, but if you want to do something that doesn't make sense to us we will let you know what we think.

[Warrior Judge]

We do the custom coating for IonBond North America and you would not believe some of the things we get calls about rumors that are spread on the internet. Either overly praising or hypercritical.

The DLC (DiamondBLACK) finish is a hard carbon coating that CAN NOT make softer metals super hard and indestructible, most will note that the softer metal parts will wear faster than hard parts. Mix hard parts with soft parts, and one will wear (ie fp stop versus hammer face.) The coating is also oriented a bit. There will be more coating on the outside of a slide than on the inside.

If you gouge steel (ie a magwell) you will remove the steel and the coating with it. The same will happen with hard rocks or sand embedded in a Kydex holster. Some people want to DLC coat aluminum, but it is so soft we suggest using Class III hard anodizing. SS is generally softer also, so mag wells WILL gouge if you miss, spring steel against soft steel or aluminum, spring steel wins.

How many of you have slides that peen over or have small burrs in the area of the slide stop? If you move the base metal the coating will move also.

Hard chrome is super thick it comparison, so though you may still scratch it is is thick so you may not get all the way through it. DLC is about 4-5 microns and so there will be a short time where it is tighter, and if you coat the sear and hammer, you will need to do work to them after coating. You are adding material to a generally mirror type finish if you have a good trigger.

All in all we do a lot of coating and if you understand how the coating works your expectations will most likely be met or exceeded. If you think it is "magic" you will not have your expectations met. Coatings are not magic, they are subject to the laws of physics. The machines at IonBond are very busy and most of the time is spent coating for major manufacturers and under many trade names and in many formulations.

I have several demo slide that have been through Shot and have been severely abused by anyone who wanted to, I can post if you wish. I also have a slide that we let customers sand with 600 grit sand paper. Can aluminum oxide scratch though thte caoting? Yes, if you have a big enough sharp piece. There is NO WAY CeraKote comes close to out performing DiamondBLACK, or the other PVD coatings with lesser hardness, and we do a fair amount of CeraKote finishing. I'm not knocking the product, but it does not even come close to the durability of the PVD for wear, but I do know the limitations of it's performance and use it when it meet the performance and price requirement of a customer.

Knowing proper application and limitations are very important if you want to meet your expectations. 541-480-5546 we can help you understand the applications as we daily get people who want to coat things in a way that is not appropriate to their expectations and we'll do the best to we to give you straight dope. We'll do what you request, but if you want to do something that doesn't make sense to us we will let you know what we think.

Okay, my expectations are not outrageous, just that I will have a finish in the range of, or better than, the protection provided by CeraKote. It appears that my expectations (plus a great looking color combination, in my humble opinion) should be met.

Thanks.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Warrior Judge

[Loves2Shoot]

No problems there. If CeraKote somewhat close to the durability of the PVD coatings, there is no way we would go through the expense and process of using IonBond's line coatings. We can crank out the CeraKote and it is a fraction of the cost for us to use and we don't have long lead times and have complete control of the process.

Our dealer list is a who's who of gun gunsmiths so I do not think I'm alone in my evaluation of the product performance either.

In guns you have metal parts impacting each other with great force, simple fact is it WILL wear at some point in time. How fast depends on the quality of the finish used, how the parts interact and the composition of the parts.

The DLC can be applied at much lower temperatures than similar coatings and is one of the reasons it is so widely used and how many major companies put their own "brand" on the product.

[raz-0]

Thanks for the honest review. I remember several years ago, when these new, ultra uber coatings started gaining notoriety, starting with Bodycote and their boron carbide finishes...and one by one they never seemed to live up to the hype. Hard chrome isn't the be-all, end-all, but it has certainly stood up to the test of time.

Glock's Tennifer sure seems to hold up as well.

The problem with tennifer and melonite as I understand it is that the treatments use pretty high temperatures. A full weight slide with shallow serrations would probably do okay with it, but when you start cutting on the slides to reduce weight, you can wind up with thin parts that can crack. At least that was how it was explained to me when I inquired about getting it done.

No problems there. If CeraKote somewhat close to the durability of the PVD coatings, there is no way we would go through the expense and process of using IonBond's line coatings. We can crank out the CeraKote and it is a fraction of the cost for us to use and we don't have long lead times and have complete control of the process.

Our dealer list is a who's who of gun gunsmiths so I do not think I'm alone in my evaluation of the product performance either.

In guns you have metal parts impacting each other with great force, simple fact is it WILL wear at some point in time. How fast depends on the quality of the finish used, how the parts interact and the composition of the parts.

The DLC can be applied at much lower temperatures than similar coatings and is one of the reasons it is so widely used and how many major companies put their own "brand" on the product.

I wasn't suggesting that cerakote was more durable, at least in terms of such things as abrasion, and scratch resistance when applied to the same surface. What I was suggesting is that as far as cost benefit goes, you could probably achieve a similar look, have it done twice, and throw in some corrosion protection to boot for a similar price spread out over a longer time period. Plus not be waiting in as long a line, and thus get your guns back quicker. I also suspect that cerkote is probably more forgiving of less than ideal substrates (i.e. best case performance on more surfaces provided appropriate metal prep). A significant portion of that cost benefit judgment is due to the limited number of options for someone to apply ionbond, and the resulting cost of shipping for some people. If i lived on the west coast, the cost difference between the two approaches would be

You guys did both my ionbonded gun and my cerakoted gun. One's holding up less well than expected, and one is holding up better than expected. Your explanation of what causes the wear is pretty much exactly what I expected. The chip on the front I suspect is due to metal deformation, although very slight deformation. I also think complex compound corners exacerbate the issue by seriously narrowing how much deformation can be tolerated before the coating gives way. For the record, the slide started life as an STI bald classic. I don't know where they fall on the hardness scale relative to the competition, but I suspect a harder slide would have fared better than mine. It also might be better when you are re-finishing a gun rather than as an initial finish as you have already beaten up on any soft spots.

I don't think you misrepresented anything, which is why you haven't heard from me complaining about my finish. However, I do think there is a large gap between the perception of the product vs the real life performance of the product. Mostly due to very superficial reviews that basically just say I love it and it's tough.

Short term, it has shown more initial wear from common, non-abusive handling than any other finish I have in my collection other than blued. Long term, we'll see. It is very pretty, and if I am done with teething pains and get good long term wear, I'll be pretty happy.

But is certainly isn't perfect, and that's kind of the vibe people have been giving it.

Edited February 27, 2010 by raz-0

[Loves2Shoot]

That is why I chimed in.

I want folks to understand that some claims are over blown and some are over critical. What you apply it to does matter and does affect performance, and I would must rather folks understand the strengths and limitations or the coating. For example, some times the metal in parts is so poor the coating doesn't take well at all, in those instances, we will CeraKote the part, because it doesn't care about the substrate.

It isn't "magic" and if folks want to know what to expect, we are here to help. The letters of extreme praise far outweigh the critical ones, and that is about the best I could hope for. I'm ont picky with my "shooting" guns on finish, but DiamondBLACK makes it look like I actually care

[Del]

Thanks for the review of the coating

Many thanks to both of you for discussing this like 'adults' and letting me see both sides of an inteligent arguement

Edited February 27, 2010 by Del

[Shadowrider]

Another appreciative reader here. I have some thoughts. I have a background in machining and metal finishing in the aerospace industry. Loves2Shoot is spot on in what he posted.

I have used thousands upon thousands of indexable carbide inserts for cutting tools most of which are coated with TiC, TiN, TiCN, AL2O3 and several others in various combinations. Almost always these coatings are put on with a PVD process. Sometimes a CVD process is used which will not work for firearms as it's done at around 1900 degrees. I can say that in over 20 years I never ever saw the coating chip or flake off. Not once.

Also you are correct in saying that the coating doesn't adhere well to corners. The reason why is that on a truly sharp corner there is no surface area for the coating to adhere to. It's standard practice in the industry to "break" or radius sharp corners just for this reason. It doesn't take much though due to the coatings being so thin.

I don't know what the chemical makeup of Ion Bond's coating is but I have no doubt whatsoever that it is drastically superior to Ceracoat as far as wear is concerned. And I'm not knocking Ceracoat's finish, I have it on a couple of different guns and like it. It's just like comparing apples to oranges.

But thanks for posting up your experience. Keep us posted on how it wears.

[kgunz11]

Thank you. That answers the question I've been asking. It's the typical advertising hype. Now we need someone to come clean about Hard Blue. The claims are pretty dramatic here http://www.superiorbarrels.com/.

Canyon Creek is the only place I've found that's using it on slides and frames.

How about this. What Rich calls "hard blue" is actually TiAlN. It's a coating used for high speed cutting tools to keep them sharp so they can continue to cut hard, heat treated steel. So the way I see this, if it can be applied to metal used to cut metal, and actually stay there, it must have some pretty good adhesion strength. I'd say TiAlN is pretty tough and about the most permanent finish you can put on a gun. It's twice as hard as Hard Chrome.

ETA: And Rich is not the only one using it, it's been around for quite a while, most folks just like to call it other things than TiAlN. For a cost comparison, where TiN cost $75, the TiAlN costs $150.

Edited March 5, 2010 by kgunz11

[Steve J]

Yes, that's the question. How cosmetically resistant is TiAIN to hard use in a Kydex holster? I get draw stroke marks on the right side of my slide. I have buffed them out many, many times on a chromed slide only to have them reappear. From what I'm reading here, IonBond won't hold up to that.

[Loves2Shoot]

Yes, that's the question. How cosmetically resistant is TiAIN to hard use in a Kydex holster? I get draw stroke marks on the right side of my slide. I have buffed them out many, many times on a chromed slide only to have them reappear. From what I'm reading here, IonBond won't hold up to that.

If you don't have rocks in your Kydex DiamondBLACK should EASILY hold up to that. I've done tens of thousands of holstering with my Tanfolio in Bladetech and it shows no wear.

[Wild Gene]

Very interesting. I am going to go with the DLC coating, no doubt.

Is there a preferred lubricant with the DLC? I am a big fan of the SLiP 2000 EWL.

Thanks,

WG

[JerryShoots]

Thank you for posting this. I'm going to give this stuff a try on my next build or possibly revisit a few older ones. Great info here!

[Loves2Shoot]

Very interesting. I am going to go with the DLC coating, no doubt.

Is there a preferred lubricant with the DLC? I am a big fan of the SLiP 2000 EWL.

Thanks,

WG

I use a synthetic 30 weight motor oil and trans oil mix, but any oil will work.

[ChrisMcCracken]

What about slide glide? Any reason that won't work as well as more traditional oils?

[Loves2Shoot]

It will work with Slide Glide.